Technical Aluminum radiators.... what's the consensus?

You want mag anodes. The do well collecting the charge of dissimilar metals and antifreeze. Dexcool and similar coolants (like for new shit) can be the death of a good copper/brass radiator. It attacks the solder joints 1st, then starts on the core. Takes about a year, but it'll happen. A friend lost a $5,000 honeycomb radiator to Dex. Another had his Packard oil cooler core start to delaminate from using that waterless stuff, Evans, that was supposed to be the "messiah" of radiator coolants. Water in the oil sucks. Oil in the water almost worse. Just seems a good topic to bring this up in, not trying to be a buzz kill.

 

Well that's good to know. The magnesium ones are only a few bucks more.

 

I just add Water Wetter, with regular green coolant and deionized water (nothing from the tap).

I see no need for the OAT coolants in my applications.

 

Have you flushed the cooling system?

Many people's first reaction is put an aluminum radiator in, but they don't ever seem to want to figure out why the engine is overheating.

The first thing I do when I pick up an engine core is flash the coolant passages with a garden hose.

The last two 261 blocks I picked up the passages were roughly 1/2 full of rust, sludge, and casting sand (yes there was still casting sand in the block) and on one the coolant passage behind cylinder was completely blocked.


Engines don't just start over heating there is a reason, and these cars had to deal with slow traffic when they were new, and people back then would not have tolerated a new car overheating or having to pull over every few miles to let their engine cool down/add water.

 

It' not my car but here is my take-

Old cars are not cheap, and a radiator is not something you are going to replace every year or even every five to ten years change it once and it likely last as long as you own the car.

Many times, the same people complain about the price of a copper bass radiator will spend a couple thousand dollars on wheels and tires, multi thousands on paint/interior on cars that had nothing in these areas.

For me the main advantage of an aluminum (in a modern race car) is it can be repaired however on the street that advantage is lost because of the use of Antifreeze which contaminates the aluminum.


It is funny to me hearing people talking about the stamped tank aluminum radiator blend right in, the welds, particularly the T.I.G. welds stick out.

Maybe I have O.C.D.

 

Cars don't overheat! They under cool!

Ben

 

^^^ Yeah what he said ^^^

 

Getting back to what you can find in a block Rod and Custom did an article on building a flathead and they said there’s all sorts of stuff in there. H&H Flathead’s was doing the build and they showed all kind of rust and casting sand left in the one they did for the article. If I remember correctly they used everything from forced water to jobbing a rod or some other stuff into the ports to knock everything loose. I was really surprised by how much was left behind during the factory process

 

I had my original recored to the tune of $500,,,a few weeks later CHAMPION was repopping that same radiator for $250 and anyone i know with the Champion have not had issues although it does weigh half as much as my original brass and copper rad.

 

[QUOTE="Robert J. Palmer, post: 15545404

Have you flashed the cooling system?

Everyone's first reaction is put an aluminum radiator in, but no one everyone ever seems to want to figure out why the engine is overheating.


Once again I have been reassured that I am not " EVERYONE". Nor have I ever flashed a cooling system. Ron

 

Special water! Special antifreeze! Anodes! This is getting complicated....

I'll be running a composite system as there's no aluminum replacement heater core available for this car. I can't be the only guy doing this as this is true for many of our old cars, and I haven't seen any reports of catastrophic damage from this. I suppose this will warrant a phone call to one of the antifreeze manufacturers tech line to see what they say. The anode is a new one on me. No mention of one in the eBay radiator listing, I guess I'll see when it shows up. A show of hands... how many aren't using one? There's no spare coolant bung on the motor, as a worse case I could install one in place of the draincock, it'll just make draining a bit of a PITA.

It definitely has the wrong radiator. OEM was the surge tank and a cross-flow type radiator. The one installed is minus the surge tank and vertical flow type. Roughly the same height, but about 15% narrower which corresponds to a '59 unit which had a 352 as the largest available motor. To make matters worse, it no longer has a 352 but now has a PO-installed '63 390 with 10% more displacement. The motor was rebuilt according to the paperwork and pictures (but not bored) but was hot tanked. IMO the radiator is marginal for its use. Factor in that I'm gathering parts for a 445" stroker (nearly 100 more inches over a 352) and there's no doubt in my mind that it won't be adequate. According to the available info, the two-row aluminum one I bought will support up to 600 HP, more than enough for what I'm building.

 

Anything still requires maintenance on a regular basis. This is my brother-in laws 55 after no maintenance for about 5 years w/anode.

 

Seeing as how we are posting ugly pictures and speaking of magnesium anodes, this what happened in my '51 in one year. It was a clean engine with fresh coolant. It has Edmunds aluminum heads that I want to protect. A new anode is shown for comparison

 

That's nasty!

 

You Do! This is not rocket science or dirt track. Lots of over thinking of cooling system here, regular maintenance will keep it working properly. Hell, I change coolant in my daily every 2 years.

 

You simultaneously missed my point and made it.

If someone want to run an aluminum radiator it's their choice but it the grand scheme of things how often are you going to change a radiator?

Not to mention the fact that issue is not wanting to spending $750.00-$1200 on a copper brass radiator while at the same time talking about building a 445 Cubic Inch FE

The original point is many times people overlook the simple, if an engine is overheating it must be the cooper brass radiator or the mechanical fan when it is often something else causing the issue.


Plus, people are acting like the aluminum radiator with stamped O.E.M. style tank blend in and no one will ever notice, and maybe they do to people who don't know cars or from 50' away by people who do...


...it very much reminds me of local cell phone towers that are disguised as evergreen trees.
Apparently, they think no one notices that they are almost 40' taller than the evergreens that are native to the area.

 

O.K. many people, and I thought if I flashed it would scare the crud of the coolant passages. My original post is corrected.

 

All in the name. Never had an issue with the Chinese flavor, and can't justify spending a grand on a radiator just to have bragging rights lol.... seen guys spend a fortune on a walker, and not drive their car 100 miles a year. I work to hard for my money.

 

Brass radiator, iron block, aluminum head, aluminum supercharger. This car is worth 10 or more of the best cars on this thread. The "charge" in the coolant decided to eat the aluminum supercharger head and vanes. It hadn't been used in a year.

Would a mag anode have helped? Why wouldn't it? Electrolysis is nasty bidness. So the all iron motor/aluminum radiator variants among us take heed. Using the car often has a preventative nature, but when they sit (don't lie, all of our shit sits sometimes) this starts happening. The more aluminum the bigger the issue. I'm no scientist and I don't fully understand radical milivolts developing in coolant thru dissimilar metals. I just know it can happen. Show of hands, who else has aluminum heads, intakes, water pumps, etc, so forth and more. Lots of us. Do you, always, but the issue is real. Anodes probably help more than we wanna think and our shit is far from normal transport. And it will sit around for as long as months at a time. Good luck. I'd hate to see the above happen to anyone else. We were lucky.

 

It's really pretty simple. Just think of a simple flashlight battery. They are just an anode (the zinc case), a cathode (the carbon core) and some acid electrolyte. If you look at a galvanic table, you will see that there is a difference of about 1.5 volts between those two materials. Sound familiar? An engine with aluminum heads and an iron block with coolant circulating through it (as an electrolyte), has a voltage difference between the two of about .4 volts. Still a battery, but just weaker. Batteries wear out because of transfer of electrons and the accompanying erosion of the components.

Magnesium, having an even lower voltage potential, substitutes for the aluminum as the anode. Electricity, being a bully, always attacks the weakest material.

 

I’ve used Walker copper/brass radiators and Summit aluminum radiators over the years with no problems. An aluminum radiator with factory style stamped tanks sounds good to me.
I have two questions that are kind of a sidebar to this copper/brass, aluminum conversation.
1. There’s apparently four or more types of coolant available at our local auto parts stores, they are usually labeled “for German cars” or “for Asian cars”, “For Ford Vehicles “, etc. Do we know what’s best for our aluminum intake (and heads), cast iron block with a copper/brass radiator combination? What about the above engine with the aluminum radiator?
2. I used to use water and soluble oil exclusively in my old cars. It’s no longer on the shelf in the stores so I followed the herd and started using antifreeze/coolant. I haven’t ever had any cooling problems that weren’t caused by hardware failures.
I can’t help but wonder if it’s still a viable alternative to modern coolants.

 

Actually, the coolant situation is worse than that. These days most manufacturers have their own proprietary coolant, and if you don't use it, they'll void your warranty. I found this out the hard way when I took the little lady's Kia in for service (it was still under warranty after 8 years and 78K miles). I thought changing the coolant would be a good idea, but when I got the bill, it was about $150. When I asked why, I found out about the special coolant. (When I bitched about it on "The Ford Barn", one of the members there who owns an Aston-Martin chimed in and said he had the same thing happen, except it was even more expensive.)

This why I use sacrificial anodes. I can understand the Galvanic Table and differences in electric potential, but there is no way I have the knowledge or resources to mix up a "witches brew" coolant that does not serve as an electrolyte.

 

You could pipe in an oil cooler like some big blocks use.

 

I talked about that above. Our old shit is best with the same ol green we know n love. The new stuff has an acid component to it. I have no knowledge of why it can hurt some of our brass stuff but it does. Anyone with a brass heater core should still heed the warning of new coolants and brass radiators.

 

The local Carquest owner stocks 2 levels of green and the orange Dexcool. He used the low cost green in his 36 chevy and it ate the thermostat housing on the 350 in about a year. I'm buying the higher priced green and running it in a combination of units with steel and alum parts and alum radiators and copper radiators. SO far I have no problems. I do drive my stuff regularly if that makes any difference. My point is to say all green is the same would not be correct in today's world. Most of us remember when the alum radiators and cylinder heads started being common that the owner's manual specified a specific anti freeze to be used. Many questions here.

 

In 1971 my 1936 Chevy pickup with SBC needed a radiator. The radiator shop talked me into a Corvette aluminum radiator. Dunno when vettes first had aluminum radiators, but it worked perfectly and maybe period correct.

 

Isn't that a Rolling Stones song??

 

In any engine with aluminum components exposed to the cooling system, that includes intake manifolds and thermostat housings and cylinder heads in addition to radiators, you should use a silicate free, nitrate free OAT coolant, like Peak All Vehicle 50/50. Silicates are used in many coolants as an additive, but can be aggressive to aluminum, so use silicate free AF. Organic Acid Technology coolants are best at preventing corrosion and erosion of the cooling system, they form a protective barrier on the surface to reduce corrosion while allowing maximum heat transfer. A good prediluted coolant is mixed in the proper ratio with deionized water to prevent scale formation and deposits. This is the best practice out there guys. https://www.owi.com/retail/brands/p...eze-coolant-prediluted-50-50-for-all-vehicles

 

A good quality copper & brass radiator should last the rest of your life, is fully repairable and rebuildable. Aluminum not so much, repairing an aluminum radiator isn't so easy. I ran across that a couple of years ago when the top tank of the aluminum radiator in my 30 pickup cracked. I tried fixing it with some JB Weld, and that didn't last more than a couple of days. I was able to get it patched up and am still running it today, but if it had brass tanks I could've repaired it myself rather than having to take it to a guy to have it done. I know some of you have the tools and skills to weld aluminum, I don't. Soldering brass is something I can do very well.

 

Well, glad I opened this thread because I learned something. I know about sacrificial anodes in marine use, but didn't cross my mind for our stuff, and I just installed aluminum heads on my 327. Not sure where to put it though.