Okay, here's the deal: I got the lead on a free (yes FREE) clip out of a 69 Nova. This is a Cali car and has zero rust. The bushings are all fairly new and the A arms look perfect. I've done a search and seen a lot of people say that MII set-ups can be just as much, but a lot easier, my question is should I go forward with the clip since it's free, or should I just keep fucking with the grease bushings until I can afford a MII? Oh yeah, I have a 54 Bel Air that I'm putting a (GASP!) SBC in. Thanks for the input. Aaron
..I'd do the Nova clip, if it has drum brakes it;ll work great, if it has discs it mite be a little wide. Probly has drums tho, most 69's did. They work great in 49-54 Chevs.
If you can install yourself, do the clip. I have one, works great. The M2 is more $ but easier to install. Either way the car will drive way better.
It is a drum, but I was thinking of changing to disc. I guess if that pushes the wheels out I could always go with a deeper backspace???
That's an option, depending on how much offset you need. I know Fatmat makes narrowed control arms for '70-79 Camaro clips 'cause they're too wide for many cars. Novas are the same. If you don't mind the extra work and can weld, a clip is a viable, inexpensive alternative to an MII. My guess, though, is that 45% here will say clip it, 45 will say MII, and 10 will say leave it. There's reasons to do all of 'em...do you plan to bag it? Bryan
then theres the MII thats a bolt in and takes about a day...... but in the end it costs a lot and its still an MII. I would do the clip but the bolt in ones are WAY easy! just my .02c
I think i would get the clip an dsell it and put the money towards a bolt on front end kit. If the car is running and driving you could minimize the down time with a bolt on kit. You should also evaluate your skills???? If you can rip and tear and weld withthe best, than clip it. only you can answer the questions. my 3 cents. good luck
Disc brake rear steer sub is 3/4" wider than drums. Fatman A-arms are not cheap $800 so measure and make sure it'll fit before cutting. My 41 is done with the sub raised up a bit the way hot rod willie did his. It has 1 coil cut out of the spring. Here's a pic of it
friend had a 54 chevy with a Nova sub and it was too wide, he went narrower arms and had some issues, can't remember what though, I'd just narrow the sub if it was me.
clips.... well... how's your welding and fabrication skills? do you consider yourself a good engineer? please tell me you are not going to do it with a chinese 110 welder from harbor freight. I'm sure there are lots of good clipped cars out there. but it seems all i run into are the shitty ones. like the 53 chevy truck with one wheel 2" ahead of the other one. or the really nice one with the front of the frame hacked off and the radiator support bolted to a piece of 3/16 flat stock. that wasn't so bad, but it gave us nothing to bolt the bumper to. made up some brackets to get the bumper on and it shakes like a fat ladies ass when she jogs. has some shake in the wheels too. if you cut a big chunk of steel from something, you can't replace it with 3/16 plate. it really needed to be ripped out and redone, but our job was to hang the front sheetmetal and bumper, not re engineer the whole car mustang II's rock. how low do you want to be? that's how low you can go. you don't cut your frame in half. your sheetmetal goes back on right where it was before. rack and pinion rules.. you don't even need power steering. manytimes your front track will be narrower than original.. no troubles with rim widths. people here seem to like clips, there's my 2 cents on mustang II
Really, clips work fine if done with a little thought, like a good plumb bob and a yard stick...the MII will be pure cookie cutter stuff, I have installed several. latest is a 4" narrowed (right down the middle) on under 50 chev pu, they drive great, ackerman is closer than a MII. Next time you have a chance jack up a MII car and watch the toe change! Thats what I paid for!!!!? The clipped car will drive like a real car not a scary thing you wont drive! Been there...
My MII doesn't scare me a bit. I've seen Camaro clips that scare the shit out of me...both need to be well-planned and executed. Good welds are critical, of course. Also, each MII has it's strengths and weaknesses. This thread is an eye opener, but some of the issues have since been addressed by the manufacturers: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115209 Bryan Bryan
clipping is not very traditional. Don't believe there were mustangII's or 69 nova clips available back in the day. This is, after all, a traditional board.
Have a nova clip on mine,with a sbc and bags, does take a little work bolting on the front sheet metal. If done correctly they're great. You'll hear pros and cons to both, just have to decide which is best for you, good luck....
I've got a clip on my 39 pontiac, I bought it as someone elses project and the clip (front steer) was already on it, but on wrong. Car sat real high and one wheel was almost 2 1/2 inches ahead of the other. Anyone who would do that would screw up a mustang II as well. I removed the clip (what a job!) and reinstalled it. It was more trouble to hang the dog house than a mustang would have been, but in my opinion it's a much better front end than the mustang kits that were available back then, the newer ones are much improved. I have had NO problems with this car in the 16 yr's I've been driving the hell out of it, and am really glad that it's clipped. If I was doing it from start right now I'd probably have a hard time deciding which way to go, unless I was in your shoes, you said the magic word------FREE. Or you could get the clip, sell it, and put the money towards a mustangII.
I clipped my 52 chevy with one from a 76 camaro. As is, it was too wide. Narrowed the control arms 1" and run 6" wide wheels on front with 4" backspace and it is still tight. I had a free sub and it took about $300 to rebuild including brake parts. MII was a $1300+ proposition and I could use the extra grand elsewhere. The downside assuming you have the tools and the skills is the time it takes to not only fit the clip but then get the sheetmetal back on right. I've put about 30 or so hours working alone to install mine. Another thing to check into is the rear steer subs are difficult to get the steering connected due to clearance and angles. I've heard this but not experienced it. I think the 69 nova steering box is behind the crossmember making it a rear steer. I "cheated" on mine and kept the subframe intact, cut off the front end from the 52 frame. Then sectioned the 52 frame where it sat on top of the subframe making the car itself sit lower. Also it allows using the stock trans crossmember and I have about 3 feet of a overlap of the frames that makes for a very strong joining of the two. Bob
True, but 60 years later there are mII fronends and 69 nova clips so sticking with the traditional way of rodding,Do what you can with what you got or can get! I would be willing to bet if there were MII frontends avalible back in the day we would see a lot of old rides at the track sport'em in the old pics. I say clip it. My 49 aint clipped but incase I run across a FREE 69 nova,that will all be changed.
One way to get around any problem with hooking up the steering on a rear steer is to use a short column that ends inside the car. You then use a universal joint inside and one outside at the box. This is the way I did mine and it has over 53,000 mi on it with no trouble. I do have to agree though that a M11 is a lot easier and not necessarily a lot more expensive if you take into account rebuilding the Nova sub. I was lucky in that the guy who helped me build the car was able to figure out the building of a jig to shorten the A-arms an 1 1/2". So measure and make sure the sub isn't to wide for the car as $800 for Fatman A-arms plus a sub rebuild puts the cost right up there with a M11. Another problem mentioned was wheel backspacing, the smoothies I run are all I can run unless I want to pay upwards of $1500 for a set of custom built wheels as nothing off the shelve fits.
Thanks for the constructive replies. Some asked "why" I was even considering. Hmmm, let's see: Can't fit a decent set of headers (don't even try with "just call Sanderson"), It's getting harder and harder to find alignment shops that even know what grease bushings are let alone know how to align these cars, and I would like to get the car lower and orginal springs don't lend themselves to a whole lot of cutting. My fab skills suck. period. BUT, this is where this would cost me some cash as I would pay a pro to do it. One option I saw was to sell the clip and buy a MII. Sounds like that might be a good idea, anyone want a Nova clip? I don't know, I guess I still got some thinking to do...Thanks again all!
So it seems that you cant find headers or a alignment shop that has a experienced mechanic? Is that the only reason? There has to be a good alignment shop near you or somone on here probably knows one. Run your headers upsidedown. Rebuild your stock parts (new king pins, bushings, etc.), buy drop spindles, cut your stock springs or buy dropped springs. You CAN get it low with the stock suspesion. If you want it to be inexpensive, have you even found out how much it is going to be to install the FREE clip you have? Im pretty sure you could be very happy with the stock front suspension if done right.
Rebuilding the stock front end, upgrading to dics brakes, and adding power steering,(which there is no kit for), will cost as much as a MII, and you still have lousy geometry. I've done many of all these systems, and only clip a car if it's the only option. Go with a MII, you will be happier and safer.
don't clip it! reasons: ugly steering column chance wheels wont be in right spot( stick out to much/too far foward etc. expensive if you're not doing it pointless there is one good reason to do it...but it sure isnt a reason to subframe a car... i dont like how those chevys have a long hub...cant fit many hubcaps... but thats no big deal.. get dropped spindles/disc brake conversion if u want disc brakes... i dont understand how people say original suspensions "ride bad" off topic but same with bias plys...just hold on to the steering wheel its not hard...
if you are going to have to pay someone to do it, then do the mustang II without a doubt. you are on the hamb, so I'll assume you are at least a nuts and bolts guy. if someone brought me a 54 chevy with no motor in it, no front sheetmetal and the frame all clean and pretty I could do a mustang II for around $400.00. motor mounts if needed would be more. then you bolt it all back together. I figure double that to get the clip in. then who knows how many hours to get the sheetmetal and bumper back on. don't know where the motor mounts end up with a clip??? I figure steering hookup would be the same $$$ either way. then we're looking at a used 30 year old steering box... drum brakes in who knows what condition, along with suspension that may or may not be tight. unless the clip gets narrowed ($$$$) it will be too wide. as for the original suspension... had sandersons on the 350 in my old 1949 4door , had cut coils and disc brakes on the stock suspension, and had no problems with getting it aligned. it bottomed out the suspension on big bumps and was a bitch to park in a spot made for a honda.... for what I spent on disc brakes and a few new parts for the OG suspension I could have been well on my way to a mustang II, but for some reason at the time I wanted to keep the old suspension...
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