So i have this severe space issue with my water pump pulley trying to get friendly with my upper rad. outlet. So i needed a crazy small water pump pulley that would still line up with my crank pulley...and after wasting too much time looking for one that probably doesnt exist anyways, i got the bright idea to use a moroso electric water pump drive set up. Solved my clearance issue, plus i can leave the pump on after i shut the engine off to cool off the engine faster between runs and after getting hot sitting in traffic. Started thinking about the coolant flow rate....Supposadly this combo turns my pump @1500 rpms. Is this gonna make me run even hotter, or will the decreased coolant flow actually help me.. I've heard all sorts of stories from old timers about cutting off water pump fins on flatheads to move less coolant, which resulted in better cooling. So what do ya guys think? The engine is a stout big block ford: stock bore 460, big heads, 12:1 compression, with a 276/284, .585 lift cam (2600-6400 RPM), and i'm using a custom built 19x24 four core aluminum rad with a shitload of pressure to bring my boiling point up a few degree's. The max distance the cars gonna be going is maybe 20 miles, after that i'll be too damn crampt and pissy from being crammed into a chopped/channeled model a with a full cage to drive it any longer.... Is this water pump set up gonna screw me? Has anyone run one on the street? success??? failure????
Take notes on how long it lasts, how it starts to fail, etc. Who knows it may be the wave of the future and you are a leader, ha. My first thoughts would be to make it easy to recharge the battery. A plug somewhere. I'm thinking on short drives the pump is going to suck your battery low. You might make a chart to see how the battery takes it. I'm thinking those pumps pull more amps than the alternator replaces??
Interesting thread. I've wondered about running an electric pump on the street. I've heard there are pumps that will take street usage but I haven't heard any first hand results. so, come on guys, lets hear the stories, good and bad. Frank
I have actual real live personal experience with exactly this set-up. On my old drag car 70 Camaro with a healthy 454 BBC I ran the Moroso electric pump drive. The motor is a fan blower motor from some American car. But that is not the point. I made my Camaro just enough to drive on the street, meaning I added mufflers (barely quiet) and brake lights along with "historic vehicle" plates since it was 25 years old. Ran the 14x32 slicks and complete fiberglass front end and doors. I drove it on the street and never had any issues, ran fine and did not get hot. Distances up to 20 miles, that was the distance to work, just to show those doubters that I could do it! Usually just cruised to local spots less than 10 miles, but certainly enough to get up to full operating temp and stabilized cooling conditions. On the track, I enjoyed the benefit of running the pump with the engine off to help cool down. On the street I did not do the cool-down, just ran while the engine was on. I did have an alternator on my engine that was running off the crank to keep the battery charged up. I would run a similar set-up again if I was trying to run a serious drag car on the street.
I am running a crank drive 100 amp alternator, which should be more than plenty charging power for the car...considering all the electical system needs to support is the ignition, water pump, fuel pump, fan, and lights.... Were you running the standard pulleys or the overdrive pulleys? I see moroso or mr. gasket, cant remember which, sells a set of 30% overdrive pulleys for these set ups.....
that is the only set up my friend will use on his drag car. the motor has lasted for over 4 years of racing and keeps a jenkins 331 sbc 14.5 to 1 motor cool with a tiny vw radiator.
I know a guy who had an electric pump die on a 20 mile drive, the car got a tad warm....it was a used pump off a "fast street" drag car
It's very common in the LT1 world(93-97 B, F, Y bodies). Most use Mezire(sp?) pumps and have virtually no problems with them on street cars.
Just the standard set-up. Never had any reliability problems in about 4 years of use. Obviously not 10k miles per year.
I'm curious now, how noisy are those things? I guess if you have a gear-drive and short/no mufflers it's not a big deal, but how about a cruiser with overstuffed mufflers?
I've been told that depending on the amount of miles the pump sees along with the time it is left on can affect the life of these things. I have heard some stories where for some reason or another the pump dies on a trip leaving the car helpless to cool...Which is not good.
I was thinking of running a similar set-up (electric water pump) on my nailhead. I bought a weiand finned aluminum timing cover which doesn't have a water pump mount (just a fuel pump for mechanical fuel injection). I've asked people and the hamb but get mixed information and not really sure if it will work.
I'm planning on using a remote electric pump something like the one that Product Engineering sells. They seem to feel it is more than up to the task. But I haven't heard anything from anyone else one way or the other on that particular pump. Their fuel pumps are supposed to be good, that's all I've heard so far. Nothing on the h2o pump yet. I'd sure like to know.
I've got one of those Moroso setups on my drag car, so can't really help with the street issue. I CAN help with longevity a bit. The motors, (as already mentioned), are nothing more than a blower motor, and DO NOT have bearings in them. They are a bushed motor, and as such, can't take much side load. Don't run very much tension on your drive belt. (Cog-type belts don't really need a lot.) As an exercise, set it up with a fair amount of tension, then run it without running anything else. You'll notice that it sounds like it's "working" rather hard. Back the tension down some, and you'll notice it sounds a lot better. You'll find a happy medium with a bit of experimentation. (As a sidebar, I've checked quite a few suppliers, and no one seems to be able to come up with a ball-bearing, 12vdc motor like those, so I/we are stuck with what's available.) If you can find one, please share the info. Roger
There's also one out there that fits inline inthe radiator hose. I think I saw it in a circle track book.
One important thing to help longevity is to use BIG wires for it. Small wires can cause a voltage drop. lower volts means more amps. more amps means more heat and a shorterlife expectancy. this is the same reason so many people burn out Holley fuel pumps.
You can buy boat water pumps that are driven off the timing cover like a mechanical fuel injection pump. Here is a magnaflow one, but there are other brands as well ... http://www.glen-l.com/weblettr/webletters-5/wl42-cam.html
Yup, I thought I'd chime in as this is what im running on my '94 Camaro (mild 355) so far I havent had problems with over 2k on the new motor and electric wp. The only thing is you have to be watchful of your temp guage (or put a good guage in to begin with) as they dont last forever. The meziere pumps have a pretty good warntee though.
There are electric pumps that are for marine use.We built a car that does see street use with 2 Marine grade electric pumps.Keeps a 800+hp Hemi from overheating.
I've a year and a half in on a Meziere electric on my daily driver. In normal stop and go traffic, the electric pump is superior to a mech pump - constant flow rate dissipates the heat better than the variable rate of a mech unit. I went to the electric unit to prevent hot spots in some rather complex and pricey DOHC 4V heads - the lash clearance is much more consistent (and quieter) with the electric pump. Car does 30+ miles/day to and from work from speeds of 25 MPH to 55+; has done several long trips at umm...high rates of speed, too. Lots of drag passes - but the combo of a bitty drag battery and an electic pump means I get only about five minutes of cooldown B4 the battery is low enough to struggle to roll over the motor.
They are a mechanical pump, but it looks like they use rubber impellers. I guess as long as you don't run them dry they should be ok ? Here's some more pics including an exploded view http://www.dragboatcity.com/parts/index.html Looks like they use them in big block chev powered boats, so they should do the job. Only question mark I have is that in a boat they are circulating colder water than they would be in a car.
I just purchased a marine waterpump set-up from a 322 cid nailhead, it appears the pump is belt driven ,by the pics I've seen. I have not recieved these parts yet, but hope to adapt them to my 401 nailhead with wieand timing cover and wieand marine exhaust manifolds and wieand plug covers. For once in my life I'm gonna build an awesome motor and not worry about how I'm gonna pay for it. I love credit cards. LOL
Using an electric pump to circulate coolant is an amazing idea, I never thought of it. With todays electronics and fluid pumps it should be very easy to make circulators with speed controls to regulate temp. no need for mechancal thermostat. The system will need to work independantly of the key, and if you loose the electrics you will need to stop.
I just received the 322 marine water pump set-up. It has a steel plate that bolts onto the stock timing cover (where the automotive style water pump usually mount)and has a 90 degree bend at the top which mounts the marine pump. The pump has a V belt pulley that runs to the crank pulley. I think the damn thing would work for street use. Although I don't see any advantages. No way it would work with my weiand timing cover as that needs a cam driven pump like FI or marine cam driven pump like simonsez showed us.
The Jalopy Journal
