I noticed a bit of blue paint on my Moon steering wheel (dune buggy) today while I was working on it. A little rubbing and it came right off without damaging the metalflake rubber cover. That paint was on there for years, long before I bought it!
It is a crime. It was not checked much when these were old cars and stealing them or swapping VINs wasn't a big dollar deal. I'd bet a large percentage of those door swaps didn't even 'jamb' paint things. As with many things, enforcement is tightening especially when a big company can get caught out (insurance) or the state can profit. Let me ask you, when was the last time you saw federal law enforcement in your area? This has been brought up and it has been said that there is NO detailed, correct, approved way to change these out. Even if there was, it would probably be different by state, require both fed and state reps present. I encourage you to look online for a process to legally change a serial number or VIN plate and report back. EDIT: I did it for you. This seems like an AI page but here's a link. https://vininspect.com/blog/how-to-get-a-new-vin-number-for-a-car-and-avoid-common-mistakes
If it is on the door, a state inspector can supervise and sign off on the transfer of the plate. The final say on the process is your state's DMV. It varies. Many of those Fords also have the VIN/serial in one, and even two other locations, meaning that the identity of the vehicle is not severed when one ID location has been removed. A Falcon, for example, has the VIN/Serial in three locations. Two are not removable without a saw. In the case of older vehicles, there is very often not another location to check. Once the identity plate has been removed from the vehicle, it no longer has an identity. It becomes a legal non-vehicle. In may cases, even a salvage yard will refuse taking it. If an ID plate has been removed, and no other VIN/serial numbers are to be found, it is not legally possible to prove that the loose plate belongs to the vehicle, that is why they are never to be removed. There is no "end-run" around this. Be it innocent, or nefarious, the actions are identical. Auto theft and restoration have the same appearance to the law. If caught the law will assume nefarious, and you will need to prove yourself. That's dangerous and expensive. Law enforcement and the courts are NOT ON YOUR SIDE!
They are across the street, right now, raiding the sketchy auto repair business, across the street from my shop. I see them out, daily.
Yes, if it has both, and that frame number is legible. Stamped numbers on "permanent" parts have precedent.
This is getting too much for me to understand . If the Ford has it in more places that are visible and not removable , how can it be a crime to remove and reattach a number plate that matches the non removable plate . Just get a reproduction plate stamped to match the OEM plate rivet it on and carry on . There is no way every car and truck that had the door replaced , had the plate removal monitored by a State Policeman to verify correct attachment . Really ? Bed time I will have nightmares over someone going to prison for removing and reattaching a door number plate and the number is on other non removable visible places on the car or truck , that can be verified . It’s no wonder there are no beds at the county farm , they must be full of VIN plate removers .
Yeah, I took the tag off a mattress one time, and I've had a hard time sleeping ever since. You guys are getting your undies in a bunch over nothing. The numbers are on the frame, and should match the door tag, which Ford calls the "warranty" tag. It gives all the build codes, and the vin, but the real vin is on the frame. I just moved to Kansas, here all out of state titles need a vin inspection done by a cop to get plates and title. My 52 M38 jeep has the army brass military data plate with the serial number attached with sheet metal screws from the factory, and for who knows why, willys had frame numbers on ww2 jeeps, cj2a jeeps, NONE on M38 jeeps, then back to frame numbers on M38A1's and civilian cj3's. If your frame matches the "warranty ' plate number, you are not cheating anyone. I was at the local pub for dinner tonight, and mention this story to some of the cowboys there. One told me he had a vin inspection done by a trooper once and the "warranty" tag did not match the frame number, which matched the title. Trooper said, " don't ever do this", as he ripped the warranty plate off with a screw driver
I know THREE people that got caught, and had to pay big money to lawyers to get out of it. Just because you don't believe it's something does not make that true. Two of the three did not get their vehicle back for over a year. The third did not get the car back, at all.
The law is the law. There is no questioning how or why. It's written in plain English. You follow it or you don't. That's always been a choice. Russian Roulette logic should not be applied here. I know people that got caught. You can choose to believe you won't. Just keep an extra $40-50k on hand, just in case.
You do not remove a VIN plate. There are perfectly valid reasons why. It should not be that hard to understand. I guess some are just afflicted with "you can't tell me what to do" syndrome. Used to be called being pig-headed...
Every single DMV, or whatever it's called in your state, has access to the database that shows where the numbers are, the typeface, the format, the special characters, what the plates look like, and how they are fastened, all with pictures. It is in a book, and online. They know exactly what it's supposed to look like. Reproduction plates are a gamble. Anything less will likely be spotted. You might get lucky, you might be explaining yourself to a judge. Hubris leads to nemesis. If you want to violate the law, don't talk about it here. Your comments and potentially the whole thread, will likely be deleted.
The plates are made new , rivets are made new and restorers replace them many times . Notice the Shelby plate it is attached with simple rivets . His numbers did not match the Non removable Ford number attached to the inner fender well . This has gotten way out of hand on the comments . Pretty simple buy a new plate and reattach it as you wish and be done . The question was ask how to clean it and now the person was told you’re commenting a federal crime to remove it and reattach it . One has to know through out the life of every older car on the road this has been done many many times , the tag may have been reattached many times , for many reasons and all was well . How many doors do you think have been purchased to repair another car and the tag was removed from the donor car ? Is this a crime ? Surely not . Would you pass on a screaming purchase of a 32 3W if the body tag did not match the frame number ? If so turn me on to it I’ll for sure make an effort to break the law and purchase it . When replacing panels , I would say the crime is leaving the tag on the door and not replacing it with the tag that matches the registration . Just my 2 cents . Do what your comfortable with , I’m wasting too much time I could be having fun with on this subject .
Never thought I start a sh*t storm with this. But the hand scrub didn't work so Gorilla tape is currently on the plate and we'll see what red paint gets removed when I go to the shop in a bit. Photos to follow.
First off, this thread has become off the rails stupid. If I want to remove the VIN tag from my property, I can. The 4th amendment gives me the right to be secure in my property and effects. I own it, I can take the tag off. Now there may be laws stating how that will affect the resale, use, or registering of that vehicle as a result, but we can certainly remove the tag. If the car is damaged and the repair causes the VIN tag to be moved to the repaired part, that does not in and of itself become a crime. Criminal acts require intent. Even the engineers should be able to understand that just like a machine needs all the parts to function correctly, a crime needs all of the elements to be a crime. Just like you can sue anyone for any reason, cops can charge you with anything they want. Then it is up to the legal system to sort it out. If you have a car and the VIN tag is damaged or missing, you need to research the process and use due diligence to verify that nothing nefarious is being done in the repair or replacement of the tag. If the A pillar tag is missing and you verified the frame numbers, the engine number and any other number on the car, a reasonable and prudent person would have no problem agreeing that the reaffixed or replaced VIN tag on the new A pillar is the right VIN for the vehicle. And if you did your due diligence in verifying everything was correct and the vehicle was still the same vehicle, there is no crime. 99.9% of the cops couldn't tell you how to identify a reaffixed VIN tag. And if the reaffixed tag has the actual VIN to the vehicle, how can that cop reasonably articulate that a crime has been committed to even charge you legally? The laws are in place to keep people from representing the vehicle as something it isn't, not to prevent you from doing maintenance and cosmetic upkeep.
Before and after photos. Applying another payer of tape. Will let it sit in the 90+ temp today and see if there is anymore progress.
It’s working. I like to use aircraft paint stripper. I have successfully removed paint like that without affecting the underlying paint. But keep at it and you will get it where you want it.
When I titled my Model A as a "street rod" in PA, moving over from an Ohio title to a PA passenger car title to this, the DMV voided my title and VIN and then sent me a new VIN plate to mount on the firewall and a paper title to match the new number. Your experience may vary!
Tape technique is working great, and not hurting original paint / anodizing at all. Make sure you mask it anew before the new paint job!
Wow, your tape results reminds me of removing a price tag from a newly purchased and valuable swap meet part (why the hell do sellers put sticky tags directly on paint??!) Anyway, I think at this point you could use a Q-tip and acetone to carefully remove paint from the VIN number area and the embossed perimeter, where there is no underlying black.
Cigarette lighter fluid (Zippo, Ronsonol, Scripto, etc.) are naptha. As is Coleman Lantern fuel (white gas), I believe.
@rusty valley you can do whatever you want. Pull tags, open up your non-serviceable stuff, pour used oil on the ground, remove VIN tags, dig up arrowheads on your property, hunt off season. Some of those things have laws prohibiting them. Gov't keeps making new laws and enforcement happens when there is a problem that affects others and there is money to be collected. Did local law always inspect serial/VIN numbers on cars, or was it just paperwork a few decades back? I did some digging and the law seems to have been passed in 2020. https://law.justia.com/codes/kansas/2020/chapter-8/article-1/section-8-116a/ Note that at the bottom, it says history and notes go back to 1984. Things aren't the way they used to be. Like I said, they keep adding new laws. What you used to do may have been okay, but it's not now. The link has the wording of the law there in Kansas, you can read it. Was plate removal done before? Sure. Was it legal before? Maybe according to Kansas, but not Federally. Were the feds involved in checking every car's plate every time it transferred or go in an accident? Nope. Are states getting more restrictive? You bet. It's not because the guy restoring his car in his garage wants to make it look as good as he can. They didn't consider that small section of possible illegal acts. They sure did consider absolving law enforcement of anything, though. See section G. It's because of the chop shops, title washers and other cases where doing this causes harm. You can argue that intent must be considered. There is only one mention of Fraud in the whole text and reference to another law.
The Jalopy Journal
