Age of your tires

Ah geez I can't believe I'm not a real car enthusiast in the eyes of PBRdstr because two of the tires on a car I built from literally nothing are 7 years old. What ever shall I do?

 

You've just added to the cluster- f$@k , LOL...

 

^^^^ Little more hard core than the norm.

 

It's reasonable to assume that anyone that drives the shit we build here on the regular has somewhat reduced standards for safety. If it's not the sheet of plate glass above the gas tank in your lap, it's mechanical drum brakes or accessory lap belts that paralyze you in a 25mph collision... or even tires that might not necessarily hold up to rigorous inspection by the modern driver. I think most of us have the sense to judge how safe our tires are within our use cases.

If you want to get into the could-go-wrongs there's a very long list of other things that are not ideal about the horseless buggies of the 1930s even when you pack them full of the latest and greatest equipment the 1950s had to offer. There are probably very few regular users of this forum that don't qualify as car enthusiasts. Check that snobby bullshit at the door man.

 

"Confirmation bias" in a tire age thread. Who would have thought........

 

I wonder who wonders most?

 

I never realized my status as a car person was directly related to the frequency at which I spend money to replace my tires...

This trash is why I work in my garage by myself. Moving on...

 

The last thing I'd ever buy for a project would be tires, I'd like to buy used tires the size I'd plan to buy for rollers.

 

I think I'm going to cut out some wood circles for my RPU project the right height for the tires I plan to run.

 

I haven't read the rest of the responses yet, but I think tires can definitely go bad, in different ways now than historically. Modern motorcycle tires (for example) have a sort of "fluid" inside making the rubber similar to a damp sponge, and the fluid stays distributed throughout the tire ONLY by the tire being run and flexed. Let the tire sit long enough and the tire is unsafe.

So although that paragraph is off-topic, it suggests a possible similar problem with car tires (but I don't have time to research it right now). At what point in time did the rubber chemistry change - I have no idea. It might be a particular issue if you run MC tires up front however.

 

OK, I thought I was done but a few more things came to mind. First, a question to our north-of-the-border brothers...

Seeing how you guys are a looong ways from our sun belt, has the Canadian government or tire industry adopted any sort of 'tire age' policy or rules? If so, what does it look like?

Second was this link posted by the Sarge... Consumer Issue: Tire Aging
This is very interesting for multiple reasons. One, it's not from the government or any tire industry source, but rather a legal group. Why will become clear if you read it all. Two, they throw out these interesting statistics...

'Evidence shows tires in hot climates weaken sooner than tires in cooler climates. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in 2007 that an analysis of tire claims to insurance companies revealed that 77 percent of these claims came from states with a hot climate, including Florida. And 84 percent of those tire claims were for tires over six years old.'

A lot to unpack here. First, they acknowledge that tires age slower in cooler climates. Second, they note this is for 'tire claims', NOT specifically 'aged tire claims'. So fewer than one in four claims comes from outside the sun belt for anything tire related. They then note that 84% of the failures in the sun belt are tires over six years old, leaving 16% to 'other' causes, likely road hazards or underinflation. 16% is not an insignificant number. Although it would be interesting to see a breakdown of just how old those tires were. 7 years? 8? More?

So, this validates the NHTSA Phoenix test as performed. So if you live in the sun belt, you should pay attention to this and I've said that all along. But what about that 23% of non-sun belt failures? As you move north, tire expiration lengths increase, up to ten years. Somehow, I doubt that the same 'aging out' percentages apply, but what are they? 50%? 30%? Were these times selected to capture enough tires so it wouldn't look like a rip-off, or on actual data?

Lastly, there's this... the real point of this letter.
'Legislative Efforts: A bill that would require tire retailers to disclose when the tire was manufactured to consumers was first considered in the 2010 Florida Legislative session. The Florida Justice Association will continue to fight for this bill in future sessions.'

Most people would assume that when buying new tires that the 'age clock' would start with purchase. They would be wrong; it starts on date of manufacture. So if you're a bargain hunter and looking at year-old (or more) leftover new cars, be aware that a significant chunk of your 'tire age' is already gone before turning a wheel. I saw the other day that there's still some new unsold Dodge Vipers still floating around (last built in 2017!), will the dealer install new tires before selling? And what if your just buying new tires? Are you going to ask the guy how old they are? And what will you do if you find a couple are a year or two old? I don't see this as a common occurrence, but possible for odd-ball brands or sizes. Should you get a discount for the 'lost' tire age time?

They state that they've been working to get this passed for 15 years. I'm sure the tire industry is dragging their feet as hard as possible. I understand their motivation and can't say I fully disagree with it, but this is another big ol' can 'o worms. I worry that the effect for us would be that the manufacturers would simply stop making the slow-moving sizes (like the 'obsolete' ones we like), making us even more dependent on the specialty makers with higher prices and probably lower quality.

 

How long do tires sit in a warehouse waiting to get sold ??? Tire dealers buy thousands of tires at a time to get a good price !!!

 

… and apparently ruffled enough feathers on some clearly missing the point about being a respectable & responsible hot rod/vintage car driver/owner by taking safety, even if not their own, at least that of others, seriously, not to mention exposing themselves publicly for not being one.

OTOH, I've been into vintage cars pretty much full-time 40+ years now and continuously see a lot of mind bogglingly stupid/unsafe shit people do everyday, so I'm not really surprised by any of it and truly believe G. Carlin seriously undersold the math in his comment/joke about the stupidity of an average person.

 

Who the hell left the door open...again?

 

Steve, I for one appreciate your efforts & interest in researching this, but if you wish to learn the reasons behind this "6 year" guideline and its originally intended effects, may I recommend turning your attention to few decades earlier, i.e. when and why D.O.M. coding was created ?

 

The tire "store" I buy my tires at records the manufactured date code of all the tires purchased, and the date they were purchased on, that info is printed on the receipt.

One time they had a set of 4 odd sized tires on the sales floor marked at 1/2 price, at that time those "new" tires were 2 years old.

I suspect "new tires with older build dates" could be a problem at places that sell discounted tires. Maybe there are reasons those tires are cheaper then any place else?

 

Agreed! Opinions VARY. According to YOU, we should pay little attention to others opinion. Believe that is just what I will do to YOURS!!

Ben

 

I don't think I've ever heard of any "Tire dealer" buying "thousands of tires at a time".

Some larger distributors may, but they usually supply dozens or more dealers and don't necessarily need to sit on them for long as tires are generally considered "consumables" and thousands upon thousands are replaced/sold daily.

Many of "tire dealers/shops" I've dealt with or know, may keep a dozen or two sets in stock, but most seem to buy & get few sets delivered each day. My experience extends only to "independent" shops, not those corporate franchises.

 

... and allowed this round beg roll into the square echo chamber, right ?

 

PB- I'm sure you've got credentials and I'm not gonna ask you to put 'em up. I'm not even gonna argue that there is a degree of irresponsibility in driving on old tires (just as there is in driving on somewhat maladjusted brakes or knowing you really need to get around to replacing that wheel bearing or taking your girlfriend out in a car with no crumple zones and no seatbelts).

My point is we're all enthusiasts here and being snide about tires is crazy. Nobody here is going to take their prized vintage car out at speed on tires that are obviously on the verge of failure.

A 9 year old tire that has been a roller inside a shop its whole life may have a shorter life in the grand scheme of things. It may not provide the best ride, it may not provide quite as much traction. But it's not going to fail randomly and kill you. If you're doing your preflights and keeping your attention on the car, you will catch the signs before it gets to that point.

A tire that's been out in the elements for that same time period? Hell, I've seen 3 year old tires fall apart from the relentless sun here in Texas. That's not really an age thing so much as it is a UV exposure thing... plus heat, plus shitty rubber compounds, etc...

Every time we get in our cars we are taking a calculated risk. We can control some factors and you're right, tires are absolutely one of those factors. But do I want to spend $700 putting tires on a car that's still a project that I take on a grocery run now and then? No, my rollers are fine for this purpose. They were $50. They have inner tubes. If they start shedding rubber I'll look for another used set. Is that maximally responsible? No, of course not. But this car might end up parked again and I don't want it to be parked on $700 worth of new shoes. If new tires were required by law I'd have to find a different hobby. I just can't justify burning bread like that.

 

We sell tires, not a lot, maybe 2 or 3 sets a week but we don't stock tires.

We order and our distributor delivers the next day. I don't know how many tires he delivers a day but I do know he rolls his truck at 8 a.m. (as the dock people have his truck loaded and ready to go when he shows up for work) and he said he usually pulls back into the depot at 5:30.

I know our distributor has a very large area but I don't know how many trucks they run a day.

...

 

I think the difference between seatbelts, air bags and said style of safety vs. tires is that the seat belts, air bags, non collapsible steering columns, gas tanks for dashboards etc is that effects basically you and your passengers, be they your kids, grandkids etc.

Where as tires have a high risk of effecting others around you. Should a tire blow apart on the hiway at 70mph what's the chances that your able to fully keep control of your vehicle and not possibly affect or harm drivers around you ?

I think that's the point or view many are looking at when it comes to tire safety. It doesn't always just effect you.


...

 

Change tire every 5-7 years?
I bought a set of 50,000 mile Firestone tires 2.5 years ago and I now have to replace them all due to cracking at 26,000 miles.

 

Dear Trevor, I appreciate you apparent attempt to at least consider my point with this ^ reply, but as I mentioned, in my 40+ years of full-time involvement with vintage cars (as an enthusiast/hobbyist & professional builder/restorer/owner of countless of them) I have seen plenty of evidence to be convinced that any and all efforts, especially deliberate, to avoid act/behave responsibly as a representative of this "hobby" often has ill consequences, whether causing damage or harm to innocent/unsuspecting bystanders and/or inadvertently creating an impression that "we all", i.e. everyone in this hobby are just irresponsible a**holes with little to no concern for safety and well being of anyone else.

Also, my gripes are not just about tires. A lot of so-called hot rod/old/vintage car enthusiasts drive crappily/unsafely built cars, not to mention those who engage in stupid driving behavior on public roads, be it show-off burnouts/street racing/- takeovers/etc, all which I consider just a**hole practices which can make rest of us, including me, look bad/irresponsible in the eyes of the general public, especially if their behavior or unsafe cars cause accidents & harm to others.

Or maybe I'm just too old, cantankerous and have seen way too much nonsense, including many spending thousands or more to bling up their car/engine with all sorts of trinkets or flames’n’shit, while driving it with unsafe brakes/steering/suspension/tires and complaining the cost of all the latter being “too much” ?

OTOH, if others in this hobby choose to be irresponsible a**holes, I do not have to like or respect them, right ?
Just like you don’t have to agree with me or appreciate/like/respect my opinions/views.

P.S. IMO and with all due respect, "taking a calculated risk" as an excuse is a bit lame, especially when we all take plenty every day, even when getting out of bed in the morning.

 

I high school I would get about 6 weeks out of rear tires.

 

I really don't think you understand what this here is all about.
You might just be to old to relate to the thrill about creating rides that represent a watershed era of auto history. Namely late Thirties thru early Sixties.
We aren't the street warriors you seem to despise. Generally at this point We want to say welcome, show us your passion ( car )

Man,,, Who hurt You? Seriously What is going on there?

 

No no, he's right... I just saw it in the paper.

 

70 MPH with your hands off the tiller? I can't change 8 tracks without changing lanes. And what does this have to do with the age of my tires? Get off my lawn!

 

How many blow outs have you all had?
I’ve had two. One was a bias ply recap that I was driving faster than I should’ve been, this tire was also abused (burn outs). The second one was a radial I hit a road hazard, a truck ahead of me dropped some fist sized rocks on the road. Luckily I didn’t loose control on either incident, mainly because I didn’t over react. IMO if your tires have cracks REPLACE them. I inspect my tires frequently, on my cars my tires never get to 5 years they’re wore out before then. I haven’t heard of of an absolute age limit on tires. It sounds like manufacturers recommend changing at 5, 7 or 10 years. Personally I would follow the manufacturer’s recommendations, I wouldn’t treat the date as a drop dead date but as a guide just like changing oil. Sounds like trailer tires are the worst. My experience has been cracking and checking way before the thread is wore out. I think we all or most of us probably have run on questionable tires at one time another, I’m also sure that we took extra precautions while driving on said tires.
Stay safe. Keep rubber side down and shiny side up!
Dan

 

While I can appreciate with some of the sentiment of making sure your vehicle is safe, there's a saying that comes to mind.

To paraphrase: "If everyone you meet is an a-hole, there's a common denominator"

You need to lighten up. You joined last month, didn't introduce yourself, and have many posts already complaining about other hot rodders...