Technical Welding on a rear differential

Stupid question time. Will welding spring pads on a differential with the axles still in it warp it bad enough to prematurely wear out any bearings in the pumpkin?.

Late 60's Ford 8"

The person who welded them on didn't skip sides just straight burned them on.....both sides of the pad then moved onto the other one. I replace the axle bearings and seals (the next day), the axles slide into place ok and the seals haven't leaked over the last 3 or so years. The center needs to have new bearings (and most likely new or used gears), but I don't want to waste new bearings. I'm thinking it should be ok even if slightly warped ......but I thought I would ask.

 

If it is done poorly enough, yes.

Find someone in your area with a jig. Have it checked, and corrected as necessary.

 

No opinion will give you peace.
Take the advice of @gimpyshotrods

 

FYI, checking it is super easy to do if the rear end is out of the car. Just bolt the tires on it, and use a couple wheel chocks/blocks of wood so the tires can’t roll around on the floor. Then lay a tape measure from the tread of one tire to the tread on the other tire. Then have a second guy rotate the axle housing 360 degrees, while you watch the tape measure for any movement. If the housing is bent, the distance between the tires will change as you rotate the axle housing. It is easy to do, and very accurate.

Up to about 1/16” of toe or camber in the rear wheels is pretty common. 1/4” or more can definitely cause some bearing wear problems.

 

I’ve never jigged one for that


Lots of no issue mikes

 

Ok so let me get all the facts here.

the pads were welded on 3 years ago

you are NOT welding new stuff on just doing a quick rebuild new gaskets and seals etc.

it currently has NOT leaked in 3 years.

I’m gonna go ahead and say if it was going to leak, it’d be leaking after 3 years. Swap your parts and move on.

But obviously yes in the future if you don’t know what you’re doing you can fuck a tube up bad enough welding pads on it to make stuff leak.

 

When I swapped an 8 inch out of a Maverick into my Ranch Wagon I had to move the perches. The person who installed the new gears in the 3rd member showed me a rear end that someone just burned the perches on after they relocated them. The rear end warped and it was now junk. That said he had a guy who used a jig to properly weld the perches after I relocated them. Money well spent. IMO

 

Back story:
I went to a friends shop with the whole rear intact (axles in and pumpkin in) I bought off of Craigslist, his neighbor was going to let me use some space to swap perches. I measured everything, cut off the old perches, tacked on the new ones and pushed the cart to the side. While I was next door talking to my friend he fully welded the perches on thinking he was helping, I came around the corner to see the last perch being welded. He was nice enough to let me use his shop, so I didn't say anything. I figured if I couldn't take out and re install the axles easily then I would need to straighten out the tubes. I replaced the axle bearings and seals, when I re installed the axles they went back in ok. The pumpkin bearings were already making noise when I first put it on the road and I drove it for about 3 years that way, now the bearings have gotten worse and it's time to replace them. I might try some crude checking while the rear is still in the car.

 

Id be want to make sure pinion angle is correct if i saw perches welded on.

 

I’ve relocated perches maybe 4/5 times.
First one my dad stick welded them, last few I wired welded.
At the time I had no idea of warping a tube, etc.
Every thing worked out fine, no growling bearings, etc.
Will it work out okay for you? No idea, but did for me.

 

I have welded on 100s of housings . I always ran the beads 360* around the housing . When cool ground the bead off where it wasn’t needed to hold anything . When attaching ladder bar type rear brackets for 32 - 34 frames they get welded 360 * never had any issues . Welding on spring pads I always skipped side to side also .

 

I have found very few axle housings to be actually straight and true.

Bearing and seals can accommodate a significant amount of misalignment, up to a point.

Housing need not be perfect, just good.

Past that uncertain point, components will wear faster, and you could have problems.

 

I too have welded axle perches on hundreds of rear ends, from dirt track racing to street racing, or hard driving. If the axles slid in without issues, and the seals have not leaked in 3 years, its good enough. If a problem hasn't shown up in 3 years of use, your axle housing is OK.

 

On my stock Dana 60 out of a truck with 5/16" wall thick tubing, the housing needed straightening before being jigged and perches welded on, I was very suprised, just goes to show ya gotta check 'em... pic shows perch only tacked in place.

 

Welding the perch completely may bring it back mostly straight. I would have definitely done that before having it straightened.

 

1000 percent agree !! ^^^^^^

 

You would probably be amazed how "not perfect" the were off the assembly line.

 

I suspect the truth is, a lot of stuff comes off the assembly line as new and yet would not be accepted by us if we really knew the truth. In particular any thing from the 1970's and 1980's.

On the ranch like most hicks, we would routinely over load a Dana 3/4 ton pu with 1 ton of hay, even more. In fact any load less than 1 ton of hay was under loaded. I've heard frames creak but not axes. Same with a 1/2 ton truck. Those always were overloaded. Add in extra spring leaves or boosters AND we would under carrier flat strap bridge a rear end from side plate to side plate to keep from load warp-age both running and permanent bending. Welded in cross straps. I have never recalled a mechanical total failure from bent axle housings. We're talking here old technology. It's not Tesla's or Dodge Vipers here.

 

Important safety tip; be careful installing sealed ball bearings. NEVER ding the shield, even a tiny bit. If you do, toss the bearing and get a new one. Don't ask me how I know!

 

For sure!
The old test on if a truck was overloaded was if you couldn't see the tires between the wheels and the fender openings. If the tires disappeared up into the bed sides, you needed to add more leafs to the main leaf springs or more leafs to the over load springs.
We would be more concerned about blowing the tires, then we were ever afraid of hurting the rear end. A bent axle housing just was not on the radar.
The difference between a 3/4 ton and a one ton truck was the number of leaf springs in the spring pack, and maybe thicker/taller frame rails, and maybe different rear gears. The axle housing didn't change, at least as far as we knew. If we could get the axles out, then back in when needed, the rear end was still good.

I had a mid 70s Dodge single wheel one ton 4x4 with a 360. That truck spent the first part of its life on a large farming operation, hauling the seed corn to the tractors in the fields during planting season. The farmers added an extra 3/8" thick leaf spring to each of the 4 springs. I've seen pictures of the loaded truck with bags of seed corn piled higher the the truck cab as it was being transferred through the rough fields. The farmers determined the old pickup was tired when both heads had valve issues, with an estimated 200K miles on it. I have no idea what the farmers did to maintain the drive train, but I was told both axles were original to the truck.
I bought the truck for $175, put a different set of heads on it, hung a snow plow on the front, and used the truck to plow snow, haul stuff, and pull my car trailer for another 10 years! When I would lift that 7.5' plow, the front end never dropped at all, and I never saw the rear end drop, regardless of how much load I piled onto it.
Along the way I did change out the shot cab, front fenders, and I changed the bed at least twice. I put almost 150K more miles on the old Dodge. The last thing I did with the old Dodge was to haul all the roofing materials for my 24 x 30 garage home from the lumber company, the old Dodge's replacement was on hand.
When the garage roof was done, I thought I might strip out the old truck. When I got under the truck, I noticed all of the leaf spring brackets had elongated holes where the springs attached to the brackets. I simply decided to send the entire truck to the scrap yard.
Over all those years, I never did anything with the front or rear axles while I owned the truck. Looking back, I can't imagine the axle tubes were not bent badly on both axles on the old Dodge, but that was never a concern. I was more concerned about elongated holes in the spring shackles then the axle housings being bent.

 

On my current "A" project , I narrowed a 9" , cut off all the old perches , welded on 4 link brackets ,etc. I borrowed a friends jig to do all the narrowing/welding/straightening... Not surprised that there was misalignment on the tubes where the axle bearings went.,. What was a surprise was how little heating drew the tubes into alignment... Mostly just took a very small half-dollar size "hotspot" on the tubes to move them in the direction I needed.
My point in all this is that cutting/grinding/welding on an axle tube can cause warpage. I'm sure theres tons of axles that were "cut ,weld & go" jobs . I personally prefer to check it myself with a jig .

 

I have seen bent flag poles straightened with oxygen/acetylene torch, just knowing where to apply heat.

 

So I’d like to ask those who know, let’s say welding on spring pads, I’d assume if a tube warped it would be in the direction of where it was welded?

So to straighten it out, you’d put heat on the opposite side of the welds?

Thanks.

 

Yes, Quarter size dull red, let it cool on its ownn. Don't quench it

 

Welded up mine in my bus last. Set the opinion angle, welded it, backed it off the lift and drove it 1100 miles.

Closing in on 40k miles now.

Hope it’s ok

 

Jesus, a fellow at work had a truck like that, Camper special I think, 4spd granny low?. I don't think he loaded it quite that much but close; of course he didn't creep out of the woods more like someone was chasing him for stealing the wood!.

 

I had an old truck with one ton suspension. Brought my 57 olds, and a complete race car across the country. In the bed of the truck was the engine, powerglide, body skins, and wheels and tires. What a trip.

 

Much ado. Who's doing the job means as much or more than the job itself. If someone burns on the perches like they're welding a tower on a skyscraper then it's too much heat and might cause issues. If a proper setting and some weld discipline is exercised there's never an issue. A rear axle can be one of the most durable of parts. It takes a pretty dumb choice to warp a tube that thick, especially where there's so little metal to pull outta whack (out near the end). I've welded on full width back braces without a fixture. Some of y'alls blood pressure just spiked at that reveal but it's true. The housing did move... from the weld bench to the car! How did I pull that off? I made a perfect zero gap fit 1st, then clamped the living fuck out of it. Welded 2" at a time, 1 top left next 1 bottom right, and so on until enough was done to do a nice continuous weld where it showed the most (ego is a bitch sometimes). It didn't move a lick, not 1 iota. In all fairness it was a narrowed housing too so pulling wasn't an issue in my mind. The point being a little common sense and welding discipline is key. And like the others above, 3 years and no issues? Hmm...

 

My Old Power Wagon is of same vintage , it’s a short wheel base 1 ton , Dana 60 both ends . I have loaded also , with as much wood as it can possibly haul , and it never stumbles . I told a kid a few weeks ago about loading mulch on the old girl “ Don’t worry about the Mule , goin blind just keep loadin the wagon !” I have no idea if the housings are bent or not , but if it can be bent by work load mine have to be at this point . I think it would take a large amount of bend to be not usable .