Projects Scott's Build Thread- '59 Apache 3100

I have had my '59 for a few years now, and I've grown completely stagnant. I was "hot to go" when I got it, completed some engine work and rewired the whole thing. I came to a stop because progressing meant spending significant money, and I just didn't have it, so it got parked. In the meantime, I continued automotive projects with each of my 4 sons, and you'd have to throw in a boat or two. Now, the kids are gone, the house is paid off, I'm making pretty good money, but I'm old! I have two Jeep CJs, two kids' projects remaining, and the Apache. Wifey and son number 4 said sell it to get something off my plate. I cleaned it all up and got her running in preparation for someone coming to look at it, and just got completely excited about it again! I left her parked in the driveway for wifey to see when she got home, and SHE got all excited about her again, and she even asked me how much it would take to finish. And that's why I need help! I know what I want, but I don't know how to get there. I've read plenty and understand options, but I don't know how to get started. Please help me get there.

What I have...
My '59 has been rebuilt by somebody sometime in the past. It's not modified except for a very good running 283. Three on the tree, wheel spacers with modern GM factory wheels, paint and primer. It's a standard cab, short bed, step side. I assume it has the original 3 speed and rear axle. It's a 2wd truck. I know nothing about the engine history.

I also have a wrecked '98 Silverado extended cab 4x4. It was my daily driver. It has less than 3000 miles on a crate 350, rebuilt 4L60E, and 4.56 gears. I can use any part of this on my '59, or put the Apache body on the Silverado frame.

What I want is a driver! Something that's fun to drive. Something my wife can comfortably take to work. Can I do that by adding power steering and brakes and maybe a floor shifter with the current set up? The 283 needs a rear main seal. It leaks badly.

Thank you for your advice and insight.

 

If you’re contemplating the frame/running gear swap, you’ll want to post in the Off Topic forum.
In the meantime, post up pics of the ‘59.

 

Understood. Thank you. I'm hoping y'all will help me find the direction I should go.

 

Personally I’d work with what you have right there. But only you and the wife know if you want to drive a truck with character, or want it to ride like your ‘98.
There are things that can be done, but again, you need to have the end in mind, then ask for help to get there.
You can modernize it with power disc brakes, maybe a dropped axle, etc, and it still retains its heritage as a ‘59 Chevy PU.
Just figure out what you want the truck to be and work backwards and you’ll have a better idea where to start.

 

Is anything stopping it from being driven?

 

My Merc sits on a '78 Cougar Chassis and the pick up in the back ground has a Nova front clip. If you have the ability to do it, I would encourage it. I'm sure you will find a lot of YouTube videos on how to do it. Your own labor is cheap. Good luck.

 

Not much from the "new" truck will fit onto the old truck, except the engine/transmission. The suspension is too wide.

Maybe you should sell it to someone who likes driving old trucks. I still have my 59, been driving it since my dad bought it for me in 1977.

 

^^^ what he said ^^^
X2

 

I am very biased in this but like my old trucks to feel old. I’m good with original style suspension and brakes. And, I have seen lots of projects gone bad where someone started trying to do a chassis swap or something. Not saying it can’t be done since I have seen lots done well. But, if I were you, I would just decide exactly what you want to do with the truck. That 283 can be plenty reliable and stock rebuilt suspension can last a long time. I like my stuff lowered, but that can also happen with basically stock parts. Anyway, looks like a great truck that I would likely be driving and enjoying basically as-is if it were me.

 

Lose the wheels. Factory wheels and poverty caps look great. The new wheels look lost
keep the 283
Drop it in the dirt

I like old truck that drive like old trucks
My new one drives great. But boring
No wind noises or rattles.
No hint of exhaust or gas.
only has 2 pedals. Yawn.

Can’t wait to get my old one back on the road.
Wrapping up the 6 in my kids 61. Manual steering but has PB. Drives great.
The wife and his girl friend can easily steer it.

Your truck stock was a great daily.
Power steering? Only for medical reasons.
Power brakes are EZ if needed.

find a non wrecked 98 that can use the 98 stuff.

 

First this is not the board to talk about frame swaps on.
The 98 chassis will work width wise but unless you set the early body up off the frame like a body lift 4x4 you end up butchering a lot of nice sheet metal in the doghouse of the 59 plus you have to shorten the frame a bunch unless you had a standard cab short box 98.

I'll PM you a link to another forum I am on that has a 47/59 truck section where some of the guys are more receptive to frame swaps as this thread may get deleted or shut down as they are normally verboten here unless it is a 32 frame under a Model A body or a Model A frame under a Model T body.
Check your personal messages.

 

It CAN be driven, but it's not fun. First, leaky RMS dumps on the clutch making it chatter beyond belief. The column shift is super sloppy, and the steering box (I believe) is bad. Oh yeah, when I pulled it out to wash it the brake pedal went to the floor!

 

Ahhh... gotcha. That narrows it down a bit. So, IF I use anything from the '98, it will be swapping the engine/tranny over to the '59. Appreciate that.

 

Thank you! Would a moderator move this to the correct forum, or should I start over there myself and let this get axed?

 

If I were in your position, I'd fix the problems, and drive it around. The clutch chatter problem...well, that might or might not be caused by the rear main seal, but it's not easy for engine oil to get onto the clutch. It is easy for the motor mounts to be loose, and for gear oil from the transmission to get on the clutch, and a few other things that can cause clutch chatter. I'm pretty familiar with that one, my 62 corvette has the problem, as did the 59 truck my kid had for a while.

The steering gears do wear out, sometimes horribly, sometimes just need new bushings for the pitman shaft. The spring bushings and shackles are something that some folks don't notice are worn out, as well as king pins and steering linkage (tie rod and drag link).

Brakes need to be redone every 10-ish years, with new or rebuilt master and wheel cylinders, and brake hoses carefully inspected/replaced, and check condition of shoes and drums.

It will ride like an old truck, be kind of hard to steer (skinny front tires with stock wheels help this issue considerably), and stopping requires thinking ahead. You can't drive it like a new car. It doesn't work that way. There is not a lot of room in the cab, so if any of you weigh over 200 lbs, comfort is not gonna happen. HVAC didn't exist back then, opening the windows and vent wings is what keeps you cool in summer, and running the heater might keep your feet warm enough in winter, IF you fix the kick panel vents so they don't leak air.

There are a lot of little things that you can fix, while you're driving it, that don't require you to take it off the road for a long time. If you think it needs to go to paint jail for a nice paint job, then all bets are off, you may never get it into proper driving condition.

Just start with the important things, and do one thing at a time. Keep going until it's working right, then see how you like driving it. Having everything working right on an old truck increases the resale value, you'll be able to get $10k for it instantly with it looking like it does (if it had better wheels!), if it's in good working condition.

 

If you do decide to go ahead and replace parts on the truck, DO NOT throw away any of the old parts. I’ve found that parts available nowadays, which are stated to fit don’t always fit, sometimes they can be modified a bit to actually work and it sure helps to have the old ones to compare. Personally I’d far rather try and repair the old parts as they were usually built to a better standard but that’s not always possible, a lot of times a good cleaning, new seals and gaskets, bearings or bushings and an old part has a new lease on life.

 

Thank you for the insight. I assumed the rear main seal was leaking onto the clutch because the clutch is fine initially, but chatters badly if you stop down the road a piece. The RMS is definitely leaking, so that's how I made that connection. I'll have a look at the tranny to see if it leaks, too.

The wheels, lol, it had Nissan wheels on it when I bought it with wheel spacers. I had those old chevy rims in the shop, so I swapped them (still has the wheel spacers). I would like rally style wheels, ultimately.

It also came with a Grant steering wheel... really small. VERY difficult to turn the truck. Would going back to an original steering wheel and skinny tires make it "as it was" when it was sold off the lot? I would happily do that.

Suspension all seems to be fine. The steering box feels like all adjustment has been tightened out of it.

 

Copy that. So far, the only things I have removed are the voltage regulator and generator. I swapped it over to an alternator. I kept those parts thinking someone else might need them along the way. Thank you.

 

From what I gather from y'all's discussion is keep the 283 (fix the rear main seal). Probably I'd go with front disc conversion and power brakes. Go to a period correct steel wheel with hub caps and skinnier tires (wifey would also like that), and lower it a might (drop spindles??). Repair/rebuild steering gear box and shift linkages and associated parts. Replace pretty much all brake parts. Check over suspension, pay attention to bushings. What about converting to a floor shift? Wifey can drive a column shift, but floor shift is more natural for her. Thank you all for the input.

 

The three speed column shift is pretty neat when it works, but the parts mostly all wore out about 40-50 years ago. A floor shift in these trucks requires a pretty long lever, and can take some effort to get it right, but it can be done. Used to be aftermarket 3 speed floor shifters were easy to find, but not so much these days. The normal 3 speed used in these trucks has some strange levers that attach with splines, not just a rectangular hole like most 3 speeds.

Drop spindles are for cars with independent suspension. Dropped axles or different springs are what's used to lower these trucks...but you don't really need to lower it, mine is still stock height, and it's still working ok.

The small steering wheel would not be helping you at all.

You probably don't have to replace all the brake parts, but you do need to replace the ones that let the brake fluid out.

The transmission doesn't have a front seal, it just has an oil slinger. But to figure out why the clutch chatters, you'll have to do some investigating. It's likely that a new clutch and resurfacing the flywheel will fix it, but you need to explore the motor mounts as well, make sure they're all as they should be. It's possible the front ones are wonky, as the original setup was kind of strange, and if the truck started with a six (which it did if the hood ornament is original) then it could have something weird up there. Pictures are a big help. The original mounts used brackets riveted to the frame, and little brackets bolted to the bottom of the front of the block, and rubber pads and strange spacer studs and washers.

 

Fixing brakes, shifter collar and linkage and leaks is a lot less work than a chassis swap

 

Thank you for the advice. I'll check out the things you mentioned. Regarding the motor mounts, whoever did the welding was horrible at it! At first glance it's sketchy as he77! The welds to the front crossmember are significantly undercut. I don't know who or when the swap was made, only that it hasn't fallen out! I don't know the year or source of this engine, and I haven't gotten underneath the truck to look, but I read on a forum that 283s had both a front mount and side mount option?

 

That's gotta be true!

 

The pad on the block in front of the head on the passenger side can nail down the 283s origin

mounts are an EZ correction. If you don’t like em there are inexpensive mounts out there

 

Pictures of stuff really help us help you figure things out, I encourage you to get a lot of pictures of the various parts of the truck that you are concerned about.

The original 55-57 blocks didn't have side mount bosses cast into them, and the mounts I describe were used on cars and trucks. Starting with 58 they had the bosses cast in, since the 58 cars could have a Turboglide transmission installed, which required side mounts on the engine. But the original 55-59 V8 trucks all had mount brackets riveted to the frame, and the easy way to swap in a V8 to replace the six, was to just get the parts and bolt them in. That doesn't mean that everyone swapping engines did that, of course, there a lot of creative ways to mount an engine, if you have some scrap steel and a welder (I do it often).

Like he said, if you want to identify the engine, for whatever reason, you can post pictures of the numbers on that pad, and the casting numbers at the back of the block, and we can figure it out, although it probably makes little difference. You can also look at the sides of the block for the three mounting bosses around the front freeze plug, or if a motor mount is already bolted to them.

 

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I expect we'll be rained out at work tomorrow so I'll stick my head under the hood. Appreciate the tip.

 

The motor mounts come off the front of the block, one on either side. It looks like a PO used pieces of scrap flatbar to make them. I'll take pictures under the hood tomorrow and of other details.

Is it okay to continue posting in this forum? I don't want lose y'alls information.

 

Sounds to me like you'll be fine, just don't post any more pictures of the modern wheels. And the worst that is likely to happen is that the thread gets moved to the other forum, but it is not likely to get deleted or anything.

 

Lol... no more modern wheels! It's just what I had.