Hot Rods Can we talk replacement air compressor pumps?

Yesterday, my 23 year old Ingersaw -Rand air compressor pump retired. This puppy has the 120 gallon tank, a 5HP (6hp peak) electric motor, produced 11.8 CFM at 90psi, or 12. (something) at 130 psi with a 175 max psi pressure (I generally run it at around 150 psi).

Maybe we need a moment of silence for my dead air compressor...

I was dressing down a few welds when the compressor kicked in with a horrible screeching noise, so I shut it off immediately. This morning, I checked the oil level, it was a bit low, but not that low. I topped it off, because, well that is just the natural reaction. It didn't help, the noise was still there. I didn't expect it would solve the issue, buy why leave the simple chance go? I pulled the belt guard off, I thought maybe the belt died or the pump might be starting to locked up. The belt is good, the compressor pump turns freely, and the electric motor is good. I did notice that if I rotated the compressor by hand back and forth I could feel the change in direction giving me a thump, low in the pump body. I assume the rod bearings are not in very good shape. Not exactly what I wanted, but it has served me well for over 23 years, and hasn't seen the best care. I am my own worst enemy here.

The biggest issue right now is the I too am reaching the end of my building days. This current project of modifying the dash to install gauges has extended into more then 3 weeks already, and looks to be less then 1/2 way there. I probably don't need this level of compressor any more, but I'm not quite ready to go without an air compressor either.
I suspect buying a replacement pump is probably the cheapest direction to go, since the tank is in good shape (I have always bled the water off every day), and the electric motor works very well. The current pump is a single stage, side by side, two cylinder, with a cast iron block.
I was somewhat surprised to find replacement pumps ranging from a low price of $99 to up past $1900. I'm pretty sure I don't want the $99 special, but I really don't want a $1000 pump either (I didn't pay much more then that for the entire compressor when I bought it new). Funny how old minds work sometimes...
There seems to be a pretty wide selection in the $120-$150 price range, then the next step looks to be $220-$300 range, both "ranges" are listed on amazon & bay. If you go to an actual compressor parts outlet, the replacement pump is in the $600-$800 range.
Other then at the compressor parts outlet places where their pumps are mostly two stage, which ups the CFM range (which isn't going to be much of a benefit to me, I seldom had an issue with the 11-12 CFM while I was working, I sure don't see a problem now).
To me it looks like many of the lower prices pumps deliver the 11-12 cfm, but the max psi is down in the 100- 125 psi range, the higher the price, the higher the max psi. The $200-$300 range have a psi in the 130 range. Is that going to be an issue? I have never had a low pressure air compressor.
Another thing I see is that there are a lot more 2 cylinder pumps in the V form, then there are in the side by side form. both look to mount to the plate on the compressor in a similar setup. I don't see a space issue with my compressor, but am I missing something else that may be important?
I also do not see any pumps with a cast iron block, but there are a few with cast iron sleeves in an aluminum block, I assume those would be better then no cast iron sleeves?

Any one have some advice?

 

We moved 4-5 years ago, and I left the big compressor (same size as yours) at the old house, and only took my really old 1hp compressor. So far, I've gotten by with it, filling tires, drying solvent off parts, very seldom using a die grinder or similar, and my "new" plasma cutter.

I gave up on the bodywork stuff. And I got an electric impact that works pretty well.

So my advice is don't fix it

I've been meaning to by a big compressor again, but it's hard to find anything in stock that meets my needs, that costs under $2k. So I put it off. Maybe I'll put it off forever.

 

I would stop by America’s favorite tool store (Harbor Freight) with a tape measure. They sell two compressor pumps that could work for you- a single stage 2 piston job in a V configuration like you’ve described, and a two stage unit that will also work with your 5 horsepower motor. You get the benefit of being able to inspect the offerings and get a good idea about the fit; and if you happen to buy them there you get the bonus of a window to throw the damned thing through if it winds up being a ripoff. Hard to beat that!

 

I've never had the occasion, but couldn't you do a hone, ring, and bearing job on on one of these?

 

You may want to at least pull the head off the pump. On my compressor, one of the screws fell out of the reed valve. The screw ended up stuck in the piston, which locked up the pump. I just ground off the part of the screw sticking out of the piston, and replaced the missing screw in the reed valve. The pump worked well for about 20 more years.

PS. Also check out “The garage journal”. Plenty of good shop talk over there.

 

I purchased a Quincy at school auction , this is tank , every piece is replaceable , pressurized oiling system and insert rod bearings . If me look for a quality 2 stage pump , that is rebuildable . They can be purchased at a faction of the cost of new and rebuilt to new specs . Do not purchase with HP rating purchase with greatest CFM produced for the dollar spent .

 

You might be able to get a kit reasonable, if not HF and Northern Hydraulics sell just compressors. I bought a 5 HP 11 cfm at 90 cast iron pump on 60 gallons tank from Menards for 700 ish. If you bought of those and tied into 120 tank I don’t think you’ll run out of air.
Dan

 

If you buy a pump pay attention to the shaft size and the bolt pattern.
I would not recommend going from a two stage to a single stage pump if you use an impact wrench or ever paint using air. Also I have found that single stage pumps are generally less reliable than two stage pumps, they have problems with read valves and generally use lower quality components.

 

Check out Tractor Supply if you have one in the area. I bought an IR 80 gallon up right 2 stage 5 hp unit. Just checked and it's on sale for what I paid over 3 years ago - $1200.00 It does everything I need it to do and more.

Ingersoll Rand 5 HP 80 gal. 2-Stage Reciprocating Air Compressor, 175 PSI at Tractor Supply Co

 

Craigs list...auctions...never have bought a new compressor. Built the one I have now for darn near free. 80 gal lp tank, (thicker...never rust out), Free pump and base from dumpster, new valves in pump, new 5hp motor...good for life

 

When you get to the 70-80 age group "lifetime warranty" & "rebuild able" become nearly useless criteria . Look for a used one or the inexpensive HF pumps -or- some of the battery operated stuff is worth checking out ( of course the battery will always be dead when you need it) Farm & Fleet has replacement pumps , one is on sale @ $219 , bit smaller than what you have ..

 

Just went through this the other day. I have a blown up Speedaire compressor. I needed one piston and rings for it. Could not find anywhere it was all discontinued. This had a 80 gallon tank. Finally gave up looking for parts and decided to take the motor, pump and pressure switch off my 60 gallon Speedaire compressor and put it on the 80 gallon tank. It all bolted up just fine but when I got to connecting the air line from the 2nd cylinder to the tank it wouldn't work. The 60 gallon stuff was all 1" and the 80 gallon was all 3/4". There is a long check valve and bleeder valve that goes into the top of the tank and there was no way I could adapt it because the 1" check valve was to long and would never go into the 3/4" fitting.

So make sure a new pump is adaptable to your tank.

Thanks Mike

 

There are adapters made for most any conceivable piping consideration , going from 3/4 to 1 or vice-versa should be doable , either size or combination would have no significant performance difference .

 

I looked at these, and read the reviews, and looked again, and it just looks like crap compared to the old one I had, that had been around for close to 50 years, but was getting worn out.

Same issue with any of the 2 stage compressors available at any local outlet.

So I do without.

 

The newer IR compressors are made over seas compared to the ones in the 90’s. When I moved I let my brother take my IR that I bought in 1990 rather than move it cross country. I replaced it with a Quincy which has worked fine the last 12 years.

 

Yup, I read all the stories about how the old, famous name brand compressors are great...but it has no relevance to what you can buy new today, unfortunately.

 

I bought a Puma 5HP/60Gal in 1987 (from HF). It's hardwired to the box and has never been shut off. After about 37 years, the plastic oil window clouded up. I ran it out of oil. It seized solid. I put oil in it, got it to turn over and flipped the breaker. It still works but smells like burnt Limited Slip additive after 2 or 3 cycles. I'm shifting operations to my new barn and I have a new compressor over there. I only turn the old one on when I need air at the house these days. I want to put a new pump on, (stinks bad), but I don't want to spend real money on it. It has a CI Chinese V-Twin single stage that has run 38 years. Vevor has the spitting image pump cheap. One day soon I think I'll get it. I just turned 64, if this one runs 38 more years, I doubt I'll know. Mike

 

Yes, the pump is made in India but a big sticker on the unit proclaims "Assembled in USA". Still for my home shop needs it is fine. The guy painting my Ranch Wagon uses it every day with no issues. I'll report back if it takes a dump before he's done.

 

They seem to have about a 10% failure rate? So you're probably OK.

 

I did a little research and think I answered my own question. The main thing is that compressors are designed and build differently than an engine. For some reason, they are designed to wear out all at one. If one part goes, the whole thing was probably on its last legs anyway. If a part fails prematurely, it would be OK to replace it, if you can find a replacement. It seems that replacement parts aren't usually made because of the way the compressors are made and designed.

If I had a part fail on an expensive unit and a replacement was available, I'd certainly try to fix it, but I guess compressors are a whole different ball game.

 

I prefer the old 1750 RPM units. The modern 3400 RPM things will wear out twice as fast, create more heat and condensation in the tank.

 

Ya-all ain't helpin much!

At this point, buying a new, complete, large capacity, compressor unit won't happen unless I have no choice. If faced with that, I would probably buy a smaller unit, and wait for it to catch up when I ran it out of air. It would remind me of the early days... That would suck, again.

I do run air powered impact tools, die grinders, and air sanders. and a plasma cutter of this compressor, so changing all that stuff over would be pretty costly too.


This current unit, being 23 years old, probably doesn't have many replacement parts available anymore. Even if parts could be had, I suspect a crankshaft and rods (which I believe is where the problem is) would probably exceed the cost of a replacement pump, then I would have to tear the pump apart and rebuild it myself. I can have a replacement pump here by the end of the week.

I do have some concerns about connecting a new pump to this old tank, manufacturers tend to change that kind of stuff every 10 years or so, just to screw with you.

Has anyone here actually changed out a compressor pump with a different one?

Guess it looks like I have to decide if I want to spend $150, or $250 and take my chances with the lower psi numbers. The reality is, it only has to work better then a new $250 compressor unit for another 5-10 years.

 

I just went through all this earlier in the year. My 20yr old Cambell Hausfeld single stage gave up the ghost on me. I happened to have on hand, a 60 gal. Ingersol Rand unit that had a bad shaft bearing. I went back and forth on the cost of parts vs cost of a new unit. Drove myself even further into insanity by reading review after review on all the big name brands. Finally, a good buddy of mine tells me to just go buy a 2 stage pump motor from H.F. and get back to work. So I bit the bullet and even splurged for the 2yr replacement warranty. Right out the box I learned it was NOT a direct bolt on replacement for the old IR pump, but it was close enough that I just had to slot a couple of the holes. That also gave me some more belt adjustment. The outlet pipe on the head is in the opposite head from the IR pump as well, so I had to purchase some copper tubing. Once I had it up and running, the biggest issue I encountered was how hot the air going into my tank was. I mean HOT. So, I cobbled a cooler together using an old, original, 62 Cadillac ac condenser. Long story short, it works, and it works pretty well. My only wish is that it was 80gal instead of 60, but I have plans to plumb in my old Cambell Hausfeld tank for more storage. I've been running the snot out of it for over 2 months now and I can't complain. I've done enough sandblasting with it, that if it took a crap on me tomorrow I would just swap it out and keep on truckin. Here's a few pics.

 

Go to HF and pick what you want to spend for CFM you need. Tank size means what? Nothing really, bigger tank takes more time to fill so cycles are less but longer when in the range of the compressor out put.. I replaced my Sears 4hp 2cyl single stage [blew it up, failed to check oil] with a 3hp twin single stage from HR, pressure set at 110-130. Changed motor pulley to get proper rpm for pump, does exactly the same 34 seconds [20 gallon tank I think] to cycle. Outlet is on opposite side so plumbing is required, kept pressure control. Been fine for 5 years probably [lots] longer, time really screams after 65.!

 

smaller compressor and your receiver tank might be the ticket...
also keeping an eye out for estate sales and business closings....there have been quite a few here that have had compressors listed

 

So I ventured into our local HF store tonight. They only show that they have 2 options, both are in stock in the store. The smaller one is only 5.4 CFM single stage, the big one is 17.5 CFM two stage! The big one is roughly $100 more (at $239) then the smaller one. The one I currently have was a 12 CFM single stage (at its lowest rating). Both HF pumps are V two cylinder pumps, my current pump is a side by side two cylinder pump.
The smaller HF pump would be easier to mount up and make work, but I'm not sure 5.4 CFM could do the job for me (less then 1/2 of what I've had the last 23 years).
The big HF pump is huge. It has a very large flywheel/fan/belt drive on it (maybe 4" larger diameter larger then the one on my unit). The flywheel takes a very wide single drive belt, nearly 2x wider then the "B" belt that drives my old pump. I'm pretty sure the flywheel off my pump will not fit the HF big pump.
It also has a very wide foot print, I'm not sure it will clear the motor on my tanks platform, or if it will even fit on my platform (I do have material to add to my tank platform in house, if I need to go that way). Then the supply line to the tank is 3/4 diameter, where mine is a 1/2" diameter.
The flywheel may be the deal breaker. I have never seen that wide of a "v" drive belt!

Looks like I might be back to ebay or amazon (don't like either option), or pay 2x the price from a compressor outlet.

 

Its been a while but my brother went thru this.

He bought a big one from HF and added a bolt on plate to the tank platform and bolted the pump to that.

While he was at it he added a big Trans cooler between the pump and tank, I believe it was 3/4" from pump to cooler then necked down to 1/2" coming out of cooler to tank.

It took him awhile to get it set up like he wanted but he is totally happy with it the last couple yrs. He could have done it quicker and cheaper but wanted the cooler and he built a expanded metal shield for the belt etc.

He does alot of sand blasting with it and doesn't have any problems doing it....


...

 

They have a single stage, two piston pump that outputs almost 12 CFM, $179:

https://www.harborfreight.com/37-hp-155-psi-1-stage-v-style-cast-iron-air-compressor-pump-59193.html

 

I did not see that one there, but it says they have one in stock. I might have to go back and look again.
I thought it was pretty strange there was not one between the small one and the big one.

Back when I was still working I probably would have gone that way.
But now that I am retired, and not working much, that would be way over kill for what I currently think I need.