Technical Stroking 289 - Budget Build

Thank you sir, I will check them out

 

Yes sir, that is exactly what I did for the rotating ***embly. Just trying to determine what route to go with the heads...

 

This is common.

 

Does anyone know what they mean (-1.250 vs. -1.437) with the following DART heads?
https://www.dartheads.com/product-category/heads/mk-ford/eng-302-351/

 

Dart could probably tell you ...

 

Yes sir, I just called them. It refers the OD of the spring, roller/hyd flat tap cam/ and max lift. The -1.250 are set up for hyd flat tap cam and max lift .510 vs. the -1.437 are set up for a roller cam and have a max lift of .650.

Since I have never had a set of aluminum heads can I run the old style finned valve (cal) covers or would they have to be the newer Ford version(s). I really want to keep the block looking like it was built back in the 60's. Have a reworked OEM distributor and a Pertonix that looks like it is a points distributor.
Thanks,
Mark

 

Place your VC on a head, bolts line up? Have proper clearance?
On my kids engine, due to CB VCs, I had to used narrow body roller rockers. Stamped steel would have been used, but seems I’m a glutton for spending money

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/cast-iron-heads.1329164/page-3
Picked this up over the weekend was practically given to me.

 

I put 351c pistons, 302 rods, 302 crank. Cleveland heads ,2v is fine, an aftermarket boss 302 intake and headers for a Cleveland. Use a original grind boss302 cam and you will have a nice, quick street engine

 

Have you got your engine back from "machine shop jail" yet? It's been over a year since you started this thread.

If you must bolt that tunnel ram on [and making the car a nightmare to drive] then consider dropping the rear ratio to let it rev better.

 

Yes I got it back about 4 months ago and according to them I should be getting the re-worked heads back this week fingers crossed. I'm not gonna run the high rise, sticking with a dual plane for now. Trying to piece everything together. For my cam if I stick with the C4 going to need a 2500 or a tad higher stall and 3.90 or 4.11 gears. I have everything to convert to a 4 speed with the exception of the transmission. I would love to have a toploader in there.
Question though for those who would know, with any standard trans would a camshaft with .500 and above lift present any street driving issues.

 

When you have a clutch , a finicky engine is far easier to control . I think the other cam numbers mean far more to a lack of smoothness than the lift .

 

Heads are in, didn't break the bank but definitely got upgraded a little...Need to decide on a set of roller tip rockers and need to order a ARP bolt set and fel pro gasket kit.

 

289 and 302 pistons have the same compression height/ pin location but the original 289 pistons had a longer skirt that interferes with the rod shank if you try to ***emble them into a longer stroke 302 crank with the longer 302 rod.

At least that’s the case with the old TRW/ Sealed Power Speed Pro forged pistons. I have a set of high compression 289/hipo pistons on the shelf that wouldn’t clear the rod when I tried using them in a build using a Boss 302 crank and 302 rods many years ago. All the other critical dimensions check the same, except for skirt length.

I suppose the current aftermarket pistons may have commonized on the short skirt design for both the 289 and 302 rod and crank combinations, though.

 

shorten them equally!

 

I have run into pistons skirts hitting the crank with different combinations, fortunately it was in mock up. So, I shorten the skirts to clear, then balanced it all. It wasn't a lot to take off. All was good with that engine.

 

Does anyone know how to identify/measure what screw in stud size I have on my heads. I want to order the correct rocker arms. Going with the "rail type" rocker arm, my heads have the slotted holes for the push rods.

 

I forgot I had a dial caliper and I just measured several of my screw in studs. Basically I came up with .375 so they are 3/8's. My cam calls for 1.6:1 rocker ratio. Leaning towards these...
https://www.compcams.com/magnum-roller-rocker-arms-ford-3-8-stud-1-6-ratio-1.html

 

If I remember correctly the 302 has longer cylinders, that is longer at the bottom. This was to support the bottom of the pistons at bdc.

 

Looking at your heads I don't think you can use rail rockers. They are early 289 heads made to use conventional rockers. The rail rocker heads had longer tip on the valves to align the rockers. If you are able to use rail rockers do not try to use them with the slot in the head. Heads with slots or guide plates need harden push rods. Heads that have the longer tip valves use rail rockers, and they can use soft push rods, but need large round holes in the head.
3/8 is the standard size stud and 1.6 is the stock rocker ratio.

 

^^^^ This. If you don't have the longer valves, the rail rockers can hit the valve spring retainers instead of the valve. Leading to the loss of a keeper and dropping a valve down into the cylinder. AMHIK....

 

You are correct!
The heads shown in the photo are early '63-65 heads. They have the tight slots and are pushrod located.
He does not need rail rockers.
He needs early conventional rockers.
He needs hardened push rods.
He does not need guide plates as the heads have cast in slots.

I also think he needs a cam with less than .500 lift.

 

Do not need hardened push rods with cast iron heads with slots last I new. You should have screw in rocker studs though, which you have. Check rocker clearance to stud hex, if the boss was not milled down there will be an issue.

 

In my case they were “sample” pistons from my Sealed Power sales rep.

I replaced them with hypereutectic “Samples” from the Zollner Chief Engineer.

Still have the Sealed power pistons on the shelf in the original box.

Pretty sure that while shortening the skirt might work, the profile of the pistons with a short factory skirt would be different than a piston with a long factory skirt.

Works and works correctly are two different things.

 

what would be the 'visible' difference?only thing i could even think of would be where lands are located,but would kind of go against 'm*** production'

 

Skirts extend lower on the piston barrel on the 289 pistons. They contact the rod shank if you try to turn the engine over if ***embled with the longer stroke longer rod 302 parts.

Generally that’s not one of the specifications published by the manufacturer. They give you pin bore to crown dimensions, ring locations, etc, but not skirt length.
This is all from my “way back” memory.

Like I said, though, there’s no reason current design pistons wouldn’t have addressed this. In my case, I was using pistons catalogued for a 289 specifically. I suspect 302 pistons are all you can get now, and they will be backwards compatible to replace the old 289 pistons.

I probably shouldn’t even have brought this up, but it’s one of the little details / idiosyncrasies that I have run into.

 

I don’t touch early blocks anymore . The rollers are my go to for SBF builds .

 

Here are some of the details for my build and the kit I purchased for the valve train. We tested the valve springs with the valves they had originally ordered. I don't remember the readings but they were pretty stiff.
The machine shop was worried I might wipe out a lobe and recommended and a different valve with a longer stem. So there was a little of a delay but when I picked the heads I asked them did they install the valves with the longer stem and they told me yes.
I read up a little on the rocker arm subject and don't want to go full roller, I decided that conventional should be adequate enough but I am seriously thinking about upgrading the studs to 7/16th and calling it a day on the heads.

Isky cam and lifter kit Details -

• RPM-Range 2500-6800
• 1.6:1 Rocker Ratio
• Grind No./Type 280-Mega Hydraulic
• Lopey Idle
• 2500 Stall
• 9.5-10.5:1 Compression
• 3.90-4.11 Axle Ratio
• Up To 780 CFM Carb
• Valve Lift Int/Ext. 0.517
• Valve Lash Hot Int/Ext. 0.000
• ADV Duration Int/Ext. 280
• 0.050 Duration Int/Ext. 232
• Lobe Center 108

Valve Train Items -

• Hardened pushrods (Part No. 393-HG)
• Poly Locks 3/8
• Valve Springs (Part No. 6005)
• Shims
• Retainers and Keepers (Part No. 507ST)

 

Bosses aren't milled down.