Technical No start issue 50 Ford Shoebox

Running into a little issue my car won’t start. At first I thought it ran out of gas and went to the gas station and got a couple of gallons of gas for it. Sprayed starting fluid starts runs dies
Eliminated

took off the fuel line put a rag over it to see if it was pumping gas. It is and strong
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checked to make sure the choke was actually opening and closing. It is. Check to make sure the gas petal was working the carb had my wife hit the pedal. It is working.
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Thought maybe it isn’t getting spark don’t know how to check that but if it starts with starting fluid (and dies) that would eliminate spark issue correct?

being new to the flathead world the turning on the key and hitting the button I tried pushing the button with the key off it still cranks over. Took the key out and it still cranks over that is confusing to me. How do I check for spark?

 

Well if you have fuel, spark, compression, and timing, it has to start. Pour a little gas down the carb and try starting it up. If it starts and runs then pour a little more in. If it continues to run while doing this it probably is a fuel delivery issue of some sort. Plugged filter, collapsing fuel line under suction, carb issues? The starter button in an old flathead Ford is simply to engage the starter. It won't start as long as the key is in the off position. Same is true if the key is out of the ignition. It'll turn, but not start. Key on, hit button, should run. You can check spark on it by pulling a spark plug wire off and touching the bare end of it to the block. Hit the starter button with the key on and look for a good blue spark jumping from the wire to the block. If none then it is an ignition issue. Points, condenser, rotor, coil? Keep at it you will figure it out. Welcome to the brotherhood of flattie owners, where you'll never spend so much money on so little horsepower!

 

Older Fords are like that; the ignition (key) and starter circuits (button) are independent entities. Since it will start and run on starting fluid and the fuel pump is putting out a decent volume, I'd say there is probably something clogged up in the carburetor. Maybe the float is stuck closed, or both main jets are full of junk. Time to remove the carb and take it apart.

What does the fuel in the fuel pump sediment bowl look like?

 

starts runs dies=bad ballist resistor

 

Yep it was running fine and just didn’t start the other day I could hit the button and it would start right up
https://youtube.com/shorts/Y3mfJ0GWn0g?si=ixM4gVHdDolOXBtd

 

Good thing to check

 

This was it starting just fine and easily no choke or anything and just stopped starting
https://youtube.com/shorts/Y3mfJ0GWn0g?si=ixM4gVHdDolOXBtd

 

Had a ballast go out suddenly. Started acting like the carb was stopped up/running out of gas

check voltage to the coil
Go from there

 

"Shoebox Fords" don't have ballast resistors, at least not from the factory.

 

Correct!

He has a carb problem.

Ben

 

6 volt I presume.
Welcome to flatheads. A lot to learn.
You may not be getting enough voltage.
Although I’m leaning to a carb issue.
Check your battery and generator condition.
A charged battery should show 6.3-6.4 volts.
If it’s not check your generator.
A good video.

 

It's almost as this is a test for the members here. This guy presents with an obvious carburetor problem, and people come up with everything from defective non-existent ballast resistors to charging problems. Geez.

I thought we're here to help people, not mislead them.

 

I know what it is...the starter is no good.

 

What a grouch Tubman.
I stated I’m leaning to a carb issue but am also suggesting from what I’ve experienced…. On a 50 6 volt 8ba I might add.
Low voltage was found on a non starting 6 volt out of the blue. This caused a low spark off the coil to the plugs.
Now take a pill or gummy here.

 

Mine didn’t come with a ballast either.
Some a-hole swapped it over to 12v.

Carb issues can act like electrical issues and vice versa. Learned a long time ago to grab a meter when trying to fix a carb issue.

 

Thank you. I will do that. It’s converted to 12v only thing that isn’t factory

 

Did that lol spilled oil on me from the air cleaner. Nothing coming out. So I stuck my finger down in it to see if I could feel any fuel and felt nothing either.

 

The ole tap the carb with a screw driver handle

 

It would have been nice if the O/P had initially offered up the information that the car had been converted to 12 volts. Even then, we still don't know if the car even has a ballast resistor (electronic ignition or a internally resisted coil), but even if it does, the posts (and there were several of them) suggesting it was a ballast resistor problem were obviously nothing more than pure speculation. I'll call that out every time. People shouldn't be posting wild ass guesses on threads where guys are looking to solve real problems.

You call it "grouchy", I call it "responsible".

 

I pulled a carb off twice. Rebuilt it once. Burn up a 6v starter fixing an electrical issue I thought was the carb.
I’m glad someone suggested a dumb possible source for the problem

 

Just an FYI, after viewing the clip of the car running along you best check your passenger rear tire on the inside as it looked like a sizeable chunk of rubber was hanging of the inner side wall!

 

Check condenser

 

You are going to learn.

First order the Green Shop Manual for 1949-51 Fords. The old Chilton and Motors manuals are great too and speak more in plain language for big technical jobs, but the Green Book is a must have.

It sounds like fuel or carburetor since it does indeed run off of starting fluid. So, it does seem to be getting spark.
Assume nothing though, let the car tell you.
Now, even though it has spark, it may not have good spark.
Fuel.....Gas
Fire....Spark
Time...Engine time/distributor location/advance
^^^ If these three are correct, it should run.
Fuel... fire....Time
Gas...Spark...Timing....

You need a tune up. You need to go through the tune up data/procedures, it's in the green book. Pay attention, six and eight data is slightly different.

In the meantime, simple stuff to try.
It's hot weather. Hot weather is tough on these cars. You may hear the term vapor lock, Personally, I believe "vapor lock" is as much electrical as fuel.

OK...
1. Check the oil. What you are looking for is it being over full. You are looking for excessive gasoline in the oil. If it is over full, STOP! change the oil. 94s can be bad about leaking fuel into the crankcase. Also, bad fuel pumps can pump gasoline into the crankcase.
Unfortunately, crankcase fires and explosions can and do happen. It's rare but it needs to be checked.
Normally, the oil will have a gasoline smell...they just do.
You are looking for obvious excessive fuel in the oil.

If you have not figured this out yet, a fire extinguisher, bucket, fire blanket...something is good to have nearby. It's also a good idea to do this on the pad or in the yard, definitely not in an attached garage.

2. Remove the spark plugs and inspect them one at a time. You are looking for excessive carbon or wet from flooding or anything that's different or odd. Just do one at a time and so you do not mix the firing order.
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

These came out of my 51 Coupe shortly after I bought the car. It was running.
It's a good idea to make sure the tops are clean.
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

Check out the plug wires too. Even if they really need to be replaced, the contacts can be cleaned if corroded for a simple check temporary run.

OK....
the oil has been checked for excessive gasoline, the plugs have been checked for wetness or corrosion, tips cleaned wires inspected, any oddities noted for later consideration....

3. Inspect the battery cables. They should be clean. Check the solenoid cable, Clean connection if necessary. Check the ground cable, make sure it's clean. Make sure all the connections are clean.
4. Check the coil wires, make sure they are clean. Make sure they are not broken. A broken wire on coil terminal can cause intermittent connection that's hard to find.

Check it all out. Dirty connections can cause weak spark. In the heat, this can be exacerbated.

Next check the fuel system.

5. Start at the tank. About all you can do at the tank is open the cap and smell. If it smells like gasoline, you are good.
If it smells like a sicky varnish, this may be a clue of contaminated old gasoline.

6. Check that the fuel pump works. DONE.

7. Now you are at the carburetor. Take a screwdriver and tap the side of the fuel bowls. Sometimes, this will help loosen stuck floats. Look for gasoline stains at the top seam of the carburetor. This is a sign that the carburetor may be flooding due to a stuck seat or bad float.
This time of year, you really don't need the choke. It should do fine with the choke open.

Turn the key on, mash the starter button. You may want to crank over about 15-25 seconds. Stop, try it again for 15-25 seconds. While you are doing this, one light tap on the gas pedal. You have to do this if the carburetor bowls are empty.
Once the bowls fill up, it should run.
Mixture, Idle adjustment ..... that's in the Green book or Motors manuals.....

No Go or it stumbles.

8. Check the timing.

9. Check the points.

10. Repeat.

Still no go?

It may be time to get into the carburetor. It may be dirty and need a kit.

The manuals will help you along the way especially if you have to get deeper into spark fuel and fire....

Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

 

I have a 1950 Ford coupe and when it sits for more than a week the gas finds its way back to the tank and it takes several cranks of the starter at 10 seconds at a time with 1 minute in between to get the gas up to the carb. I'm too lazy get out to prime it. Since you disconnected the fuel line to check the pump maybe you just need to crank/prime it a little more to get the gas back up to the carb. I only have the stock fuel pump on it. (no electric fuel pump) Good luck.

 

So just had a chance to respond. I want to thank everyone for the help. Took the top off of the carb, didn’t like the gasket. Fuel was very dirty in the bowl. Cleaned it out and found the needle in the bottom of the bowl. Float wasn’t set properly allowing the needle to fall out, While doing this I ordered a next day 94 carb, mine has a Holley 94, just in case it didn’t work properly after I put it together. Wasn’t really amused by the crust around the seat, float was also kind of crusty, put it in hot water no leaks though. The needle was sticking after I set it. Full drop of the float the needle would come out at an angle and not want to go back in. Took the top off of the other shoebox carb. Had been rebuilt so I pulled the parts from it and put it in my carb and swapped the parts back to my other shoebox. That shoebox ran great until the starter went out so my hunch was right. With all of the other new parts under the hood.

I plan on pulling the top off again to get a look at the fuel again. If it is dirty I will drain the tank. And may put the new carb on or maybe not dunno.

I’ve had the other shoebox a couple of years and reading here I saw it mentioned to get the green book. So I got it. I also got 2 flathead books one of which is the Frank Oddo book. I also got 2 shoebox books. One is the how to build your shoebox from the early 90s. Good examples but most of the places to are gone on where to buy custom parts. The other shoeboxes book is a black book that a member wrote and talks about him growing up in the hot rod/custom world.

My wife came home and asked what happened to the rear window. It shattered in the heat. Now I have to find a new rear glass and somebody to replace it. My wife said that car is haunted that I should get rid of it. first ride on the street belt broke on the tire. Had a new set of Coker’s so I changed them.
Next time I went out 4 miles U-joint busted.


Changed that and had the carb issue then hood bolts came out of the hinge on the drivers side.
Now the back glass.

 

All in on the flathead thing
My friends said you won’t like it with that flathead it’s too slow and you won’t be able to drive it anywhere If I I want to go fast, I have the 40. I tell my friends, tell Gene Winfield you can’t go fast with a flathead. Century Toppers was all about Flatheads and topping 100mph And when it comes to not being able to go anywhere with it, How did people drive cross country or to other cities if that is so? My buddy, Barry (RIP) had a Ford restoration business. In 1973, he bought his 1951 F1 “Josper” he lived in Hollywood many years and this was his daily driver. Then he moved to Scottsdale Arizona and again this was his daily driver. I asked how he did it I mean drive in the desert, on the highway(in the desert) he still ran bias ply tires. The only thing he changed was the rear end gear. Several pictures of “Josper” throughout the years. He changed the flathead 3 times in all of those years. He said you had to make sure they were built right. All of his stuff was old and he worked them. That Edsel tow truck was used as a tow truck. He restored it to factory specs. He was just a different breed. He used to build or supply cars to the movies. Most of the time they were just cars parked and really had nothing on the inside of them but that’s all they needed. The most famous car he built that I recall was Biffs convertible. The director even signed the back of the license plate and gave it to him. I went out of my way (two times) to get a shoebox with a flathead. The first one is still 6v the nice one is 12v

 

In addition to the float level is there also a spec for a float drop setting?