Projects '47 Buick Super Sedanette project

I still maintain that you may have an air lock in that upper hose, being higher than the radiator.

I'm not even sure that a surge tank would fix the problem. Dropping the front of the engine down would be the best place to start.

 

If a coolant system stays cool at idle, enough "fan". If too hot at speed, not enough radiator or air flow. A little work, but perhaps remove the fan and shroud and drive the same route as you last did. See what happens.

Ben

 

@BJR

@pprather
Why not remove Tstat for less impeded flow? Why not high flow water pump? It's been proven that it's an old wives' tale about slowing the flow to keep the coolant in the radiator longer. Even on race cars, like late models, they have a small radiator, high flow pump, and no Tstat. They do add a restrictor (like a washer) to avoid cavitation, but not to slow the coolant for cooling purposes. At least, this is my understanding.
@RMR&C
I checked the timing again. It was 8BTDC. The Chilton's book said factory is 6BTDC.. I adjusted, but think that isn't enough to cause a problem.
Would a 160 Tstat be better? I don't think it would make much difference. Other than maybe gaining a couple minutes/miles before it heats up again.

 

The difference in timing can definitely affect temp
Try the 6 degree setting.

 

Well it was just camera angle or view that made the engine look tilted then. Scratch that idea.

 

Have you tried back flushing the engine block? Big block Cads usually run cool. I wonder if some of the coolant passages are partially plugged.

 

Have you tried this yet?

 

Update. Tried a couple thing today. Reset timing. It was on 8*BTDC & my Chiltons said 6*BTDC. Yes, I pulled the hose off the advance & plugged it. Pulled the Tstat, to see if less restricting might help. Used Water Wetter, topped off the system with water. Was 50/50 before, but maybe now 55/45? Replaced the cap that came with the radiator (16lb) with Mr. Gasket 16lb w/ built in temp gauge, so I can get a good idea of the temp.
Fired it up (high idle). 6 minutes in, the fan came on 160 at rad/170-175 at gauge (sender is front left in block). 10 min in 180 rad/170-175 gauge. 15 min in, same. So, I'm pretty sure this thing can idle ALL DAY at 180-185.
Took about a 7-minute drive in the country & returned. It did stumble a little, but I found I forgot to hook the vacuum back up to the distributor. Both read about 200.
Kept it running at idle. After 8 min down to 180-185.
Drove the short distance into town 1.5 miles? and drove through town (small town) to my Bro's house. Left it running. Was maybe 190 max but dropped back to 185ish as I B.S.'d with him for a few minutes. Backed out of his driveway & it quit but restarted quickly.
Drove a different way home, with speeds of 35-40mph. It started rising quickly. I was nearing home, climbing a steep(ish) hill and it quit. Gauge looked to be about 205-210. Climbed to 220, not running (of course). Wouldn't restart (turned over too slow), and my bro brought a chain to get me the last mile or so. I left the fan on until he got there (15-20 min) and it was cool enough to restart, but not enough battery. Towed home, put the charger on & it fired quickly.
So, what did we learn? I can go into town to hit the local cars & coffee at the Piggly Wiggly & the local show at the American Legion, but I can't go any farther, or faster than 25mph without the temp rising.
I will try to fab up some shrouding in front of the radiator. At least close the open spot between the top of the grille & radiator. I'm wondering if something on the sides would help too. The outer 10" or so of the grille opening, are past the side of the radiator. Maybe diverting that air into the cooling area, and not just hitting the inner fenders would help? Couldn't hurt.
Questions:
1)High flow pump? Flowcooler makes one for the Cad - $168. Faster flow = better heat transfer = better cooling. 2)Better fan? I have the 16" Spal 30102049, pretty much the high-performance model. But they make one with a bigger motor that is designed to pull air through a 4-core radiator while using AC. The CFM ratings aren't that different, but if it pulls more air through a 4-core, it has to work better on the aluminum 2-core with more space between the tubes. Doesn't it?
3)Other than shrouding the front, any other ideas? A bigger radiator will not fit. This one's supposed to cool 600HP. How about adding an aux radiator? I've never seen dual rads, except on Indy-type race cars (one on each side), or maybe kit cars. There would be room in front of the one that's in there, but then iut will impede airflow to that one.
Everything I've done has made small improvements, but it's still not drivable any distance.
Here's the shot of shame. On the side of the road, waiting for rescue.

Nice photo, though...

 

I could be wrong, but speeding up the coolant could mean less heat transfer, as the heat does not have as much time in contact with the metal.

 

Yep. You are.

Ben

 

Couple things, did you check to see if the mechanical advance is working when you checked timing?
Also wondering if your fan is big enough diameter compared to core size? Maybe you could run 2 smaller ones? Also I'm really not a fan of those "cookie tray" style shrouds, they trap air in the corners, but I'm not sure how you could change that using an electric fan...
The best cooling will happen when the fan can pull air thru the entire surface of the rad. Right now you're only using about half
Not trying to be critical, seriously trying to help

 

Yes, the specific heat of the coolant, will be reduced when increasing the glycol to water ratio....
you need to go the other way....
35% glycol 65% water is what I run and that still gives freeze protection to something like -5 degrees F and burst protection (split the block and rad tubes, to minus 55 degrees F
Glad you are gaining on it...after all you built it to drive

 

When we were fighting cooling issues in my son's catalina, we were chasing air in the system. Ended up finding a slightly loose hose at the heater core. Just enough of a leak to get some air in. It would stay cool at idle, but any sort of power (driving) would spike temps.

Once we got that leak fixed, we filled with a vacuum setup and it has been fine since.

 

All grill air must flow through the radiator.

 

I appreciate the responses.
@Damon777 That is something that was believed by many of us old guys and on the surface, makes sense, but is incorrect. The faster the coolant runs through the system, the more the heat transfer. Well, technically, heat transfer rate is the same, but it has the effect of increasing mass, which equals more transfer. I'm not that smart, I've just read a lot on this lately.
@winduptoy You are correct. I'm just guessing on the ratio I have, but it is more water than Glycol. Thanks for the encouragement as well.
@RMR&C I too, am not a fan of those shrouds, but they are everywhere and apparently work. Clearance issues with the steering box leaves me not much of an alternative. Obviously, when I forgot to reconnect the vacuum, it wasn't working. But it was when it decided to quit on the way home - my Bro pointed it out at his house. The 16" is the largest that will fit on the "cookie tray." Is a dual smaller fan setup better? I thought of 4 smaller ones in each corner, but they'd be max of 4", and I'm not sure if a 4" fan pulls enough to help. I'd prefer a mechanical fan, but the shroud I'd have to fab would be a feat of engineering and be longer than a mid 70's Monte Carlo, with the fan opening above the top of the radiator. And, thank you for the help.

This radiator was chosen as the largest I could fit in there. The other option was a '55 Chevy, but the '54 in there is larger than they are. I've seen plenty of big block '55s with a replacement (stock sized) radiator.

One suggestion from my Bro, was that the lower hose might be collapsing at higher RPMs due to the pump pushing more. No spring in there. Didn't think I'd need it, as the hose is made of 2 90* hose bends & a 90* metal bend. One of those seems a little softer than the other. It's worth draining the system (AGAIN) to be sure about it.

 

Re the spark advance........just to be clear, I'm referring to Mechanical advance within the distributor. If you hold the timing light strobe on the pointer and rev it a bit, the mark should move away from the pointer as it speeds up. Modern timing lights can tell you how much and when.

I have a buddy with a 348 in a T bucket. Was overheating badly. He tried everything. New brass works rad, Evans coolant, etc. Would idle and run fine up to about 40 mph. overheat above that speed.
finally found the "Joe Hunt" distributor was not advancing(maybe even retarding), he replaced that and bingo, no more heating. Just FWIW.

 

Say WHAT? The Catalina system was running a vacuum and sucking air?

Ben

 

No, it was under pressure while running. I would imagine it drew in air upon cooling off/depressurizing.

 

I wired the relay that controls my electric fan directly to the battery. That way, if I shut it off when hot, the fan stays on and cools the engine.

 

Old lower hose & new:

Truthfully, the one I made fit better. But for replacement purposes, finding a '77 Impala hose should be easier than "Hey, I need a hose with a couple of 90* bends, and a dipsy doodle next to one of them, or 2 that I can cut up and make them work." Plus, this one has a spring in it.

@RMR&C I knew what you meant re: checking the advance. I said yes, because A) I put the vacuum line back on B) I was fairly certain this distributor was a functioning unit & C) because there's only a small chance, I hooked up the vacuum wrong. Well... I double checked. IIRC, the ported vacuum on a Qjet is above the idle screw on the driver's side. That's not where I had it. So, between the new lower radiator hose and the correct vacuum line routing, I was certain enough that I had it fixed, that I put the hood back on and fired it up. It idled hotter than before, and temp climbed faster than before.
I rechecked timing (advance disconnected, hose plugged), and it was the same, as it should have been. Reconnected the hose, put the timing light on and had my wife increase RPMs. No change. Is that telling me the advance isn't working? I guess the only other way I can think of to check it, is to take the cap off and suck on the advance to see if it moves inside the HEI. The only light I have is an old Craftsman, so no way to check distributor advance.

 

Any shops in Madison that does distributor setup work?

 

I'm not sure if they do. I knew of one that did, but that was years ago. I'll bet most never heard of a "Sun Machine." I'll dig into this a little further, but I'm no distributor guru.

 

I dunno. We're all just guessing here based on past experience.
It's pretty difficult to diagnose anything from a 1000 miles away.....do you have anyone locally that you trust to help you out?
It could be a combination of little things, did you test the thermostat to see if it is working correctly?
Also did you close off the open area in front of the rad?

 

That old Crafstman light will/can tell you if the advance is working. Assuming you are reading the timing from a mark and pointer on the crank pulley/balancer. While reading the idle advance of, say 10, rev the engine a thousand or so. IF ADVANCE IS WORKING, the indicated mark will "move" on the balancer.

Ben

 

Keep your eyes open for a used Mityvac like this one. I bought one similar to this several years ago. Think I paid maybe $10 or less at the time.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...40775/automotive-suv-2017-dodge-journey?pos=5

Most people don't know what they're used for and practically give them away. It appeared to be only lightly used, if at all.

 

So, the advance is definitely not working. Tried sucking & blowing (keep your comments to yourself) through a hose hooked to the advance, and nothing, except I can hear & feel it near the V.A. Pretty sure the diaphragm is blown out. I was pretty sure I'd see the timing mark move when bringing the RPMs up, or even when putting the hose back on. Nothing. Cadillac distributors don't grow on trees around here, and just the advance would have been something like $55 through RockAuto (complete units are "out of stock"). I found a Top Street Performance complete distributor at AutoZone for $111. I know it's Chinese, but the reviews were good. Apparently, it's a clone of an MSD. Should be here in a couple days. Thanks again to all who have helped me with advice & guesses.

 

dave fix the one you have. the chinese pos distributors are not the most reliable things made. the oem one is going to work a lot better. if you are not comforatable with checking and fixing it you can pull it out and bring it up. i have a lot of parts for hei here. i bought a bunch of springs and weights and the vacuum advance usually isnt a big deal to find.

 

Just to be clear, the vacuum advance is separate from the mechanical advance. With the vacuum line disconnected you should still see the timing mark move when reving the engine with a timing light.

 

Thank you @BJR !

 

@cshades Hey Chris, I appreciate it. It's just a time thing. I can get the whole new (cheap, I know) thing here in 2 days and it should tell me if I'm on the right track. I was going to rob what I needed off of a Chevy HEI, but Caddy is different (of course). I'll probably still rebuild the OG one, but the parts alone will probably be more than the Chinese POS.