Technical Old Big Blocks; preferences

Daydreaming today; got the notion that I might scrounge up a rebuilder big block for shits and giggles. I have my own preferences; Ford FE's and MoPar B/RB's. Have also had a 454 Chevy, but couldn't keep a damn starter on it. Had a couple of Olds 455's and a Buick (same?) 455 4v... plenty of hustle in those....
What are some of your experiences, problems, tips and general shenanigans regarding those Iron monsters?

 

Ford FE's aren't Big Blocks. They are Medium blocks at best. MEL's and 385 Lima's (429 / 460) are Ford big blocks, and the Super Duty V8's are even bigger big blocks. Why do we insist on using Chevy nomenclature when talking about these things????

Same tips and tricks as any other internal combustion engine. Do what ever is necessary to get as much air and fuel into the engine and the exhaust out as efficiently as possible.

How much of challenge are you looking for? Anybody can make a BBC sing with the myriad of parts available from your favorite catalog outlet. If you really want to impress the HAMB collective, find a 374 ci Packard V8 or a 392 IH and make one of those dinosaurs sing. Did anyone say torque rise?

 

I could do a Packard... I heard that they're practically indestructible! Would have to put a manual trans on it.... should be able to find a Studebaker version (Hawks were Packard-engined, right?)

 

The BW 3 spd+OD may have been an option in late 55/56 Fullsize Packards, but I think it was pretty rare. Worst case, you have to create an adaptor, and that is what makes this sort of project so much more interesting than a 1-800-build-me-a-454 type thing.

Ansen's even built a dragster around the Packard V8 as it does have some very key design characteristics that lend itself to making big power.



The Packard has the same 5.000" bore spacing as 472/500 Cadillacs. I wonder how hard it would be to adapt the 500 Cad crank? May take some custom pistons and a bit of machine work, but that gets you up to 460 ci real quickly.

 

Because that what people do. I call the 351C/M/W Mid size.

 

I ran an Olds 455 in a '48 Plym for 7/8 years, when the tranny crapped out I put a 331/727 in it. The Plym at the time had an 11 gallon tank & no gas guage.....If you like Ford and Mopar go with one!

 

I never considered all FE Fords as Big Blocks, but I do call the big FE's a big block engine. Never heard people ever get worked up before about a "big block Ford engine" mentioned?
And for the budget build it's just not feasible to build most of the older big block engines. Yes, they're cool, but sure wont fit into many guy's budgets.

 

Hmmm... I passed right over the MoPar hemis... but, they're all over the place with displacement
Otherwise a 413 cross-ram.....

 

Pontiac really never had "big blocks" per se.

The 326 to 455 all use the same basic block, just bored and stroked. Many same parts, timing chains, oil pumps, distributors, rods, etc. Then you can mix and match from there.

Use early front covers on later motors provided you use the entire front cover assembly and vice versa.

Cool thing is you can take a 455 and dress it up to look like the 326 in your 64 tempest.

Good thing is later years pontiac cast the cubic inches into the side of the block starting in 1967 I believe.

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I am liking the early(49-64) Olds engines. They were all big blocks and they ruled the Drags for many years before they figured out the early Hemi, which is also a very cool big block!

 

Dang.... did a little Googling and the 455's are beyond the '65 cutoff...
I've "back-dated" my share of Windsor 302's from 5.0HO to "Mustang" correct appearance

 

Of all the early OHV V8s, Oldsmobile is still the easiest to find aftermarket speed equipment for, since they were so populare throughout the '50s and early '60s. I've personally seen ONE standard shift setup for the Packard V8 in 40 plus years of swap meets.

 

Same rule applies to Olds 455, same block as 400/350. Not a "big block" just a stump puller. I drive a 500 HP 455 Olds, wild torque but not a "pretty" engine. Great for speedboats and 442s. I have driven mine for 28 years, no issues other than being very, very thirsty.

Hemi if you have the funds, early Rocket would be excellent as well.

 

That problem with that is not many of us on the HAMB have unlimited funds to spend on a Packard engine to get it to make power because it is going to take having special one off parts custom made.
As for International, If you had ever actually worked on the damned things you would know that the only place you can or could get most parts was/is the IH dealer and they never released anything for aftermarket to produce any parts including radiator hoses for a frigging 292 powered travelall. I worked for Ryder Truck rental for while and at the time they ran more IH trucks than anyone in the world and one of my tasks was chasing parts for the shop and it was a daily trip or trips to the IH parts counter. They didn't like me very well there because Jim Ryder had worked a deal for a steep discount on parts. NO parts to speak of at Napa or Cogdels in Waco Tex.
In truth the bullshit nonsense of using those engines to build a high perforance engine ends at the parts counter because there are no frigging parts.

 

IH engines are cool IMO low RPM torque monsters and weigh something like 750lbs. Other than a performance cam, and homemade headers performance parts are rare or non existent. I beat the snot out of one in a Travelall in HS I smoked a transmission and rear end but the engine just kept on going and going. Hell for stout.

Dan

 

Well, the "big block Olds" does have a taller deck height than the "small block" 260-403, which is why the intakes don't swap between them. The bore spacing is the same, however, so you can technically put "small block" Olds heads on a "big block" and vice versa, but there's absolutely no reason to do so......

All of the Buick, Olds, and Pontiac 455s are completely different, and save for some random bolts, nothing will cross between them whatsoever....For the pre-'65 thing, you could do a Pontiac and nobody would be the wiser aside from casting numbers, as there is no "big block" or "small block" Pontiacs (let's forget about the '70s 301 turd, shall we?), and they all look basically the same from the little guy 287 all the way to the 455.....Olds had their 425 in 1965, so that could work, too.

You can build an FE pretty cheap if you keep the stock heads and rotating assembly. Easiest thing to do is cruise Craigslist and find a '60s-'70s beat up work truck F100-F350 and buy the whole thing. I see complete trucks for around a grand here quite often.

 

I'm going to differ a bit with Billy as I have both 350 R and 455 blocks sitting in the garage and the deck height of the 455 is taller and the 455 takes a different intake manfold than the 330/403. The 425/455 being tall deck blocks that are close to an inch taller. Olds FAQ -- Engines

I ran a 72 350R in my 51 Merc for years and it was the most dead nuts reliable engine I ever owned. Only a 2 barrel engine but it took me to Bonneville, Texas and a lot of rod trots in the PNW often towing a 16 ft camp trailer.

The same thing happens with 425 vs 472/500 Cadillac engines. The deck height and width of a 425 are considerably less than those of a 472 500. The 500 is over an inch wider than a 425.

 

I guess with the pontiac you could classify them as big journal and small journal, according to their crankshaft size.

They were 3" starting with the 389 and 326 while the 421 and larger got 3-1/4" mains.

Don't know if it's still popular but back in the day they used to turn down the 455 main journals and drop them into 400 blocks. Making a small journal "big block".

I, at one time, took a 389 bored it basically .030 over, dropped in 400 standard sized pistons and bolted on a set of 68' performance heads and factory intake. Don't remember why I used 389 block though, probably because I had it.

Another note, the factory early 67 up 4-bbl intake is/was one of the best hi performance intakes you could use, IF I remember correctly it was basically the same as an edelbrock performer RPM. and pontiac make the same intake in aluminum with a removable heat crossover if you decided you wanted to save some weight.


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She’s so fine my 409 or 348. Hard to beat them for looks, power and reliability. I have 3 W blocks and they make good torque and power.

 

Actually the FE is my favorite large displacement engine except for the HEMIs (which I’ve never had and probably never will unless I win the lottery). They look super cool and make more torque and power than I really should have.
Dan

 

So now I can tell everyone I have a big block Olds? And my desoto 330 is a tall deck so…

 

always liked the 455 olds and buford. did play with a 351 cleveland for a bit, i get tickled when i hear someone call it a big block. ford says nascar small block, but how do you class a 351w and a 351c about the same size but bigger then 289's and 302's and the cleveland is only about 25 pounds heaver then the windsor.

 

Back in the 70's I worked for a brake manufacture/parts company. Every time we had a job on any model International.
We had to match everything up, drums, shoes, wheel cylinders, brake hardware, master cylinders, hoses.
The catalog part #'s never matched.

 

An old 59-60 413 from a Chrysler New Yorker or 300 with a cast iron torque flite and push buttons.

 

My boss used to say you could always look at a build date on a IH and tell what was on sell or clearance when it was built because that's the parts you would find on it.

Have to know build date, GVW, FGVW, RGVW, what sized brakes, rotors, etc and we'd joke about maybe even the color of the vehicle may matter then once you had all this info then like stated above that'd get you close so that you could wade thru a smaller list of "possible" parts and start comparing...

Ahhh the good Ole days !....

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True story, BTDT. Back in the late '60s when I was still working as an auto mechanic, we had a customer who had special-ordered two IH pickups. He sold high-end pool tables and these were his delivery trucks. 8' bed, 392 powered, and 1 ton 4WD. He brought one in for brakes and we had a hellava time getting parts with zero help from IH as they insisted no such truck was ever built. We never did find new brake shoes, we ended up having the old ones relined...

Being a hard-core Ford guy, I've always been a fan of the Ford FE but hi-po parts for it have always been expensive. But of all the '50s-era-design 'big' motors, only the FE, B and RB Mopars and Pontiac V8s survived past '64 and into the '70s; all the rest were gone, replaced with more modern designs. The FE has undergone a bit of a renaissance over the last decade or so, with the parts well deepening considerably. Still not cheap, but generally cheaper than the others depending on how much power you're after. I'm currently gathering parts for a 445" stroker, buying them as I can afford them. Almost there...

And the FE has racing chops that the others can only wish for, with success in NASCAR, drag racing across multiple classes and two LeMans wins.

 

I'm a little parcel to the 409s wouldn't waste my time on a 348.

 

429-460 series big block Fords are an engine builders dream. 10.32 deck, 4.90 bore space, raised camshaft tunnel and enough room to swing a 4.50 stroke without any clearance issues. Best of all a couple hundred bucks for a core.

 

Agreed. Past the HAMB date, but the Lima 460 is a good combo of stout, fairly light, lots of parts, cheap.
Haven't tried to find one recently, but they used to be easy pickins.

@saltracer is a valued member, but I gotta say the early Hemi, while big and heavy complete is not a big block. It's bottom end is very similar to the poly A block, which morphed into the LA small block. The 426 was similar to the BB (actually the Raised deck RB).

https://www.qualityengineeredcomponents.com/engine/earlyhemi/

 

Build a 429-460 with the boss 9 top end.