Long story short... I'm picking up a 291 Hemi soon and will be needing a car to put it in. I have nearly enough stuff around here to build a Model A chassis with this hemi but I don't necessarily need another Model A as I already have my favorite A body style in one and my second favorite in another. I have the opportunity to grab a 38 Plymouth coupe pretty cheap. It is a body on a frame, with a hood. No fenders. My brain is telling me this car should look really, really cool with the right treatment... like an exaggerated 33-34 Ford, but I've looked around, and I can only find ugly street rods and one sorta done as a real hot rod... and none of them really look right. But I kinda think I know what needs to happen. Am I nuts? Anyone built one of these or have photos of a cool one? Preferably fenderless...
This is the one non 80s street rod I could find using one of these bodies... and with respect to the guy that built this cool car, I think some chassis tweaks would go a long way... Pushed the rear axle back & went bigger on the tires, pushed the front axle forward... and dropped the headlights. To my eye that looks close to just right. Am I crazy? I mean that huge, exaggerated wheel arch just has such a cool swoop. The right grille shell would really sell it... throw the hood sides on and just imagine a hemi peeking out from below... I realize this car had IFS from factory and to really make it look right proportionally would involve a beam axle conversion... I think I can do that.
38 Plymouth was a cool looking car. In my opinion they look better with the fenders. The way the grill and front fenders form the front of the car is a cool detail.
Hopefully it still has doors. Finding doors, or fenders would be a huge challenge. A 38 should still have a tube front axle, the independent front suspension didn't start until 39, except for the excremental year of 34. Reworking of the bottom of the grille shell will probably be needed, if it still has a grille shell, and the bottom is still there. You need to get a grille shell from about 36 or before, when they started incorporating the bottom into the fender edge. Fender less look OK if you go with the big wide tires in either a drag racing or old oval track theme. Otherwise, they look about as odd as a mid 30s Fords (or most other mid 30s coupes) do without the fenders. Personally, I'd do the oval track version without another thought. I'd have to either run hood less, or just use the top pieces of the hood, to show off that Hemi.
It does have the doors. No axles at all. I thought these had IFS... but I guess not. The engine sitting in it in the picture isn't going with it. It's just the frame and body tin. Hood and sides but no fenders... and I think no grille shell. I think to get the front axle far enough forward to look right I'd be looking at basically converting to early Ford front suspension geometry or going quarter elliptical... a 46-48 Ford axle is 1" shy of the stock Plymouth width which I think is workable. Can't imagine it'd be too hard to graft a Model A front crossmember in. I have enough Ford stuff sitting around to do that. Shoving the rear end back is pretty straightforward. The Model A front crossmember would plug right in width wise... would have to do something about the angle though! Alright, I'm sold... I think I can get the look I want with this thing. Shot the guy an offer. Here goes.
I used a '38 Dodge tube front axle on my '33 Plymouth. Converted it to model A type buggy spring and aftermarket crossmember. 11" stock drum brakes. Stock the '37-'38 had parallel leaf springs front and rear. Dave
The front would have to go Ford transverse to move forward. The rear can be moved, but I'd look at a shorter parallel leaf and new mounts rather than just try to slide the axle back on the original ones (spring wrap!). You are going to have to come up with steering, the pic shows nothing and the Hemi is going to hog stock space. Drivetrain mounts, of course. I've stared long and hard at the 40s out back. Channeling is possible, but a lot of work on what would end up a dirt track style rough runner. Shorten the tail, slide the frame up in above the floor through the open footwell, but the frame is wider than the opening. So many of these are rusty on the bottom few inches, it sucks to hack a good one. If this one is rotted, hack away. If it really is going to have different front, rear, steering, drivetrain and be channeled, it might be time to look at a frame swap or DIY. More work, easy to get wrong. 4 friends and I lifted a 40 body up 4 feet onto a retaining wall, so it's not a super light shell, but a 2X3 frame with 30s suspension and good brakes might be the way to go. https://www.mecum.com/lots/1136096/1939-plymouth-dirt-track-racer/ https://ingyen-hatterkep.hu/1939-plymouth-sedan-oval-track-race-car-hatterkep-letoltese-8378.shtml
Around 1935, with the advent of the Chrysler Airflow, most cars moved the engine forward closer to the front axle to make for a better ride and more room in the cab. This makes the proportions all wrong for a fenderless car in my opinion which is why you see few cars fenderless built past 1934.
Pull the pan and inspect. This isn't youtube, knocks are not content, they are expensive! Pull the plugs and give the rings and cylinder walls a little lube. Check for spark without cranking. Depending on what was in the pan, change the oil filter. Install the pan. Rotate by hand, plugs out. If you have a boroscope, check the bores. If all is well, spin it over and build oil pressure. You might want to check for top end oiling. The shafts can clog up. At this point, find a carb that will work and try firing.
Haha- I knew that much by now! Thanks though... you have helped me through many pickles. This thing runs & has run recently so if that was going to do it any harm it has already been done. I'm still going to pull the pan, etc. This thing is a greaseball. He says it smokes a little but it has never had a radiator on it on the stand so it has never had the opportunity to come up to temp and clear its throat, so who knows. I got the carb with it. I just took it off to get clearance for the chain. This thing really put my $30 salvaged engine hoist to the test but old faithful got us through as she always has. Surprisingly it was not even the sketchiest lift I have done with it.
Okay, how about getting a bike inner tube, cutting it and looping it top and bottom. Fill with water and check for leaks. You can even add a couple PSI. The water pump is going to be one of those parts that isn't in-store or the local warehouse. The bolts that hold down the rocker shafts are also the head bolts. You could give them a bit of a grunt to make sure they aren't loose. There is the HEMI TECH thread here and lots of online stuff too. Check Rock Auto and Egge Machine for stuff. Hot Heads will make you drool, but keep it simple! https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/hemi-tech-index.534354/
Oh, and for the work needed to stuff it into the 38, consider this... https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/9950900345001905/ 50's Henry J $1,200 Listed in Mexia, TX
I dunno, don't recall ever seen a '35 or later anything that looked "right" without fenders. That big gaping rear fender hole just looks unpleasant IMHO. I'd work on the Hemi and wait for something more appropriate to come along.
That's what happens when you get a bunch of hoodlums together, droolin' over a hemi. They start searching the area nearby for sumptin' to stuff it in! https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/help-with-henry-j-gasser-project.1324569/
Not crazy about the Henry Js... I really think I was on to something with the photoshopped Plymouth up above but we'll see what happens. Another Model A would be the easy route. I have pretty much everything sitting around to build Model A chassis for this. Chopped tudor with a hemi??? But how many Model As does a man need?
Well, this isn't great. No titles, rusty. https://springfield.craigslist.org/cto/d/springfield-1940-ford-tudor-and-door/7866340835.html
From this post, can't just grab his pic! https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/speedweek-newbie-2025-any-advice.1339154/#post-15665251
I like t-worth's vision. Yes usually 35+ needs fenders, but I also like the opportunity to add some artwork there, as in the "F Bomb", mental note taken/made. I always loved the look of the mid 30's Dodge grills and how they flowed into fenders. If I ever get around to a 33/4 Ford, hate to admit, but I'd sure want to substitute/replicate the Mopar look/style in one form or another. Too many unfinished ahead of that for now though. I did want to ask about the frame drawing above. I try to save all such images/drawings I come across(rare). Can you give any details as to what models this is accurate for and the source? Thanks for sharing and good luck.
The above yellow '33 Dodge roaster is the best looking '33-'34 Mopar that's fenderless that ive ever seen . If you can duplicate that look you'll really have something.
Stick with the 38 Plymouth coupe you have envisioned, to put that Hemi in. Build the car you envision, not the car designed by this community. Its your car, not theirs. Many here are so stuck in the "Its got to have a Ford body to be a real hot rod" mentality. That is one reason why many of the cars here are a different color of the same car.
Got the Hemi running today. I need to do a few things to be able to bring it up to temp and see if it quits smoking. It already has Pertronix ignition and the carb (a BBD, which I actually have spares for!!) has a pretty fresh rebuild kit in it. Runs great. Put a big smile on my face when she lit off.
He wasn't keen on my offer. I think he is a little high on the price but he only just listed it. I will check back with him later. There are a few others available too but not as close by as this one, I would pay a little extra to not have to make a 6 hour round trip.
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