Technical Redirection: 3 speed, no, let's make it a 4 speed, and back to a 3 speed into my '40 Ford coupe

Well, it's been about 2 and 1/2 years, and 2 blown out throw out bearings later. Had to go back to the drawing board on this project.

After getting the whole thing back together, back in January, I drove the snot out of the car until about April, when the throw out bearing started making noise, even though I had a bad 2nd gear syncronizer. I found a 3 groove Saginaw 4 speed for a reasonable price, and figured I'd go ahead and do the 4 speed swap as an "in and out" kind of project just before the Stray Kat 500. While I had things apart, I did some more measuring and came to realize that the adapter to the adapter thing, while it worked pretty killer for the mechanical clutch linkage, it left me just short of reaching the pilot bushing with the input shaft. TOTAL REDIRECTION

I went back to the parts stash and took the old 60-62 Chevy bellhousing off of the "peanut" 3 speed that we took out of Dad's '34, and decided to put it all back together with the passenger side clutch fork and a hydraulic clutch master/slave setup.

I'm not gonna mention the money that I threw at this project on stuff that didn't work, including new parts that wound up making their way to the stash pile of stuff not used. What I will do, though, is post the junk that worked.


I laid out a pattern and Doug drilled holes in a plate of 1/4" steel. We sandwiched it between the stock master cylinder mount and the adapter for a late dual reservoir adapter, with a 10-1907 brake master cylinder. The Wilwood clutch master hangs next to it, and I had Doug weld a tab on the bottom of the clutch pedal to operate the clutch. We ran a hard line up over the top of the X member and transmission tail housing, over to a flex line, and up to the slave cylinder.
The slave cylinder is a 1996 Ford Escort 3/4" bore on an adapter plate to mount it to the Chevy Bell Housing. We ran hard line down to the flex hose that goes back to the X member.

To shift it into Reverse, I used a 4' TCI 840400 shift cable. This cable was shorter than I had originally planned, but I think it turned out better than I had planned anyway. It required us to make a bracket that bolted to the top of the Saginaw, for a cable stop, and I made a bracket to mount it to the shift arm. The top of the cable is mounted to the stock hole in the firewall for the Throttle rod, and I used a 3" screw, with the head cut off, a 10-32 coupling nut, a couple lock nuts to use the stock throttle linkage as my reverse shifter.

When I am using "forward gears" I have the throttle knob pulled out about an inch, and when I need reverse, I put the car in neutral and push the knob in to shift it into reverse. When I get to my destination, I put it in reverse, and everyone sees it as it should be. LOL

So...to answer questions:

Yes, I know my wiring is SLOPPY. I wired the car over 25 years ago, when I was a whole lot younger and didn't know the wonders of zip ties. I do plan on spending a good weekend to tidy up the mess under the dash.
No, I didn't take the time to clean up the oily mess all over the Ford Blue SBC before I put it back in the coupe. One of these days, I'll shoot some degreaser on it and blow it off in the car wash.
Yes, I used the new Borg & Beck style clutch this time, instead of buying another diaphragm pressure plate. Lesson learned. I will swap it out the "next time" I yank the engine.
Yes, I nearly shot myself through the windshield the first time I got on it and shifted from 1st to 2nd, after being used to the wide ratio of the 3 speed/3 ring Saginaw. Seems that the new 2nd gear ratio was quite a surprise to me.

 

Great thread. Thinking of going this route on my 40 sedan

 

Thanks. This thread could be titled "lots of mistakes were made until I found something that worked"

To be honest, while the 4 speed is cool, I think the wide ratio 3 speed was more fun.

 

So, again, mistakes were made, and the coupe has been sitting in the back of the garage since coming home from the Stray Kat 500, in May. No matter what I did to adjust the clutch, it just would not fully release when pressing the pedal all the way. I figure the only way to fix it is to pull it out and find the problem.


Garage rearranged to take the coupe up to Mike Meeker's shop for the next round.

Trunk loaded up with supplies, including the Saginaw 3 speed that I had removed in favor of the 4 Speed.


Mike, supervising Anthony Harris, who we elected to pull the starter off the old cast iron bellhousing.


The culprit. Apparently when I put the pilot bushing in when we put the 4 speed in the car, I didn't seat it all the way, causing it to be pressed against the splines on the input shaft. We're also of the belief that it didn't allow the clutch plate to fully seat against the flywheel, which caused the transmission to always be in motion.


Just a shot of the filthy underside of the coupe.


Having a buddy with a 4 post lift makes this job MUCH nicer than having to pull the engine and transmission doing this the old way.


Me, Mike, and Anthony goofing around. I chose to use the white bread method of removing the old pilot bushing, a trick that Mike and Anthony had never seen. Much easier to clean up than using grease to press out the old bearing!

So, the summary:

• My error in seating the pilot bushing caused a transmission that would never fully disengage, causing 3 guys to spend a Saturday afternoon hanging out under a filthy '40 to pull the transmission.
  
• I decided to swap the 4 speed out in favor of the 3 speed for two reasons. First, I preferred the wider gear spacing of the 3 speed, where I can wind it up high between shifts. Secondly, since I added the stock driveline convertible to the stable, I figured it would be better to have consistency across the stable of 40's, with the coupe, the stake truck, and the convertible. Less margin of error for this old guy when I'm not thinking about shifting. LOL
• And a reminder to ALWAYS order a new set of split wishbone bushings if it's been a long time since they have been changed. You WILL be required to change them as they will be cracked and falling apart. (Pete and Jake's Split Wishbone kit, specifically) I believe this will be my 4th set since getting the car on the road in 1995.

As it stands, the car is still sitting on the lift, waiting for new wishbone bushings. Due to schedules, we probably won't get to that until next week, then we can drop it down and test. I'm hoping this is the last version we do, but it did give me the chance to change out the Borg & Beck style pressure plate for a diaphragm style, which should make my clutch leg happy, and I'll be back to 3 on the tree.

 

I used a set of 1939 ford peddles , to put a Muncie 4 speed in my 40 coupe the 39 peddles make it super easy the make the clutch linkage work , just straight rods and heim joints . The rest is all Chevy clutch stuff , you’ll figure it out when you see it , remember the 39 was a floor shift and that peddle set up makes all the difference !!!

 

It's going back together with the current passenger side hydraulic setup, but if I pull it back out in the future, the '39 pedal setup and a different bell housing will be the plan.

 

Being the king of making bad decisions, it was the first drive with the 3 speed that confirmed I had done it again! Second gear syncro was toast! So, after the September trip to St Louis, and the October trip to the Gathering at the Roc, and MUCH procrastinating, I finally took the coupe back out to Meeker's to yank the transmission back out for a rebuild.

The first order of bid'ness was draining out the smelly stuff. This seemed to be the easier of the ideas I had come up with, to pull the side cover off and hang it over the drain pan.

After careful inspection, I can fully understand why the 2nd gear syncro wasn't working. Seems when they break like this, they just can't grab like they are supposed to. LOL

I'd never pulled the guts out of a Saginaw before, but after knocking off the teeth of my '40 stake truck's 2nd gear and rebuilding it, I figured I was "qualified enough" to not pay someone else to do the job. Pulling the guts out requires a little luck, a choice word or two, and holding your mouth just right. Putting them back together is a similar process, but requires a few more added choice words.

After getting it back together the first time and "bench" testing it, I found that something was binding it up. This allowed me to practice the "taking it apart" process a second time. I found that while putting it together, the new 2nd gear syncro got squashed a little too firmly into place and caused the issue. Popped it loose, inspected it for any potential damage, reinserted all the bearings I knocked out of the input shaft, and put it all back together again the second time. This time it was a success! All the gears worked and nothing locked up.

Since I am in "end of the year, use it or lose it vacation day burning mode", I'll head back out to Meeker's on Thursday and hopefully within an hour's time, or so, be able to put the transmission back in the car, fill it up with the smelly stuff, and be back on the road with syncronized shifts in all three gears again.

 

Nice writeups the last bunch of posts. I really like the "rotisserie" for the transmission.

 

LOL. That was last minute idea. It did require the cheap little Harbor Freight sledge hammer to keep it rotated to the correct angle to get the smelly stuff out.

 

Well, a year after the transmission swap, and 9ish months after rebuilding the 3 speed that I had swapped back into the car, I figured I should post the latest update from the trip up to the 12th Annual St Louis Area Hot Rod Hundred.

The TRANSMISSION and CLUTCH are still working fantastic, but this is more of a reminder about another thing:

NYLOCK NUTS.

On the way home, I stopped in Rolla, to fill up the tank, test their stand up plumbing fixture, and check the engine oil. I noticed that I had an issue with my Alan Grove Alternator bracket pivot bolt.

If you look just below the pully, you can see the nylock came off of the pivot bolt, allowing it to back out and eat up my Gates 7508 belt. This gave everything under the hood have a thin layer of black rubber powder. A stop to O'Reilly to get a quart of VR1, a crappy Partsmaster 7805 belt, and a stop at Menards for a new Nylock, and I was back on the road.

Nylock nuts are really a "single use" application. In the little over 30 years this car has been on the road, I know I am on at least my 3rd or 4th alternator in this car. One had bearings that wore out, one had a failed internal voltage regulator, and I think there was one more before that. I don't think I ever replaced the nylock, which decided it was done riding around in a '40 coupe. Disregard the fact that the bracket needs removed to be repainted, but about the only times I open the hood is to check and refill fluids, it doesn't bother me.




And now for some fun stuff.

It's not a trip up Hwy 44 unless you make a stop at Uranus and take at least one photo to send to your boss.


I also stopped by Daniel Boone's home, but they said he wasn't there.


I parked under the big shade tree next to the pavilion in the Washington, MO fairgrounds to allow the birds something to aim for.

And on the way home, got passed by two of the Wild Hogs.

 

An excellent adventure!

 

I'm about to embark on a (hopefully not too) similar adventure with my shoebox - right now it has the stock 3 speed (on the tree) mated to the sbc - really want a lower (and synchronized) first gear - at my disposal I have a 3.11 sag 4sp, an S10 4.03 t4, an early falcon t10 (would fit the current wilcap adapter) and a th200 r4 (boo). Also have an early nova bell with the fork clocked in the right spot for a shoebox. Could totally relate to spending money on stuff that "lands on the cutting room floor" but that what the hamb classifieds and swap meets are for! Just want to say thanks for the details and inspiration.

 

Thanks, Mr Norwell. ;-)

I tend to do these threads for my own documentation and entertainment. Being of the ADHD mixed bag of nuts, my thoughts get placed all over and this is kind of a way to keep them sorted. I'm not a craftsman, like many of the guys here on the HAMB, I'm more of a Primative Pete, from the shop class films, trying to keep my junk going, and occasionally coming up with stuff that actually works. Glad they contain info that is helpful, inspiring, and or entertaining for those who follow along with my trail of mistakes and successes.

I liked the whole concept of having the 4 speed in the coupe, and using my throttle knob as my reverse lever was a cool feature, but I guess I am just an old fart who really likes the wider spacing between gears with a 3 speed. LOL

How did you handle shifting in reverse on your 4 speed on the column swap?

 

I also did a "four on the tree" setup on a shoebox a few years, also used the overdrive cable to engage reverse.
Something to be careful of: This setup obviously doesn't have the transmission's internal lockout/ detent mechanism that prevents the trans from being put in reverse and a forward gear at the same time. If you accidently put it in two gears at once and try to drive it, you're goin' nowhere. If you park the vehicle on a hill with the trans in two gears, the static load on the trans will make it impossible to shift out of gear without a gentle push to unload it.

 

Yeah, I accidentally put mine in two gears at once, sitting in in my garage. There's a slight grade on my garage floor, so it loaded the transmission, and I had a momentary panic until I realized I could unload it and unbind it.

Since I changed back to the 3 speed, I've solved that occasional user error. ;-)