Technical A Kid's First Project: 1957 Fairlane 500 Town Victoria.

i am HOPING i broke a leaf spring or U bolt. and that i didnt just blow the axle and pull a @Lloyd's paint & glass.

in other news

i watched this go around goodwood in a video...
i should build mine to corner like this eventually. mine drives pretty good but it needs wider tires something awful. once i resolve the axle im going to see about those t bird steelies.

 

You got this, Cat. After the trip, it's a good time to get it up in the air and go nose to tail anyway. Slide all the sockets and a bunch of wrenches under there along with a grease gun. Have a good light, and some eye protection. It will take a while, but you know what everything is now, what it's supposed to do and how it fits. Know how you flipped it off but it still got you home? Now it's the car's turn to flip you off and tell you what it needs. Listen to it and get it back on the road!
BTW, those cars are great, but remember they probably have spent more on fluids and tires this year than you have spent on your whole car.

 

You might consider pulling the road draft can to check if the drain back line is plugged might be the cause of the leakage

 

ive snaked it a few times... shes just got blowby i think

 

thats the plan! im thinking the u bolts i reused had a failure, and the bushings i added werent supposed to be there.

 

been worn out after work, i think its gonna end up being this weekend.

 

something ive been talking with my father and buddies about is the engine. the guides arent the typical brass guides which are a secrificial wear item. theyre cast iron, milled into the head. theyd mean i need a full valve job, not what i anticipated... there's a 390 powered thunderbird in a junkyard near me, i can get for 250 bucks. it hasnt ran in years but it was junked due to rust, the engine was a non smoker, i would be going through it regardless... a 428 crank and mercury pistons would get me to a 410. that with a decent cam should make more power than i'll ever need.

but thats a long ways down the line, for now im going to move forward with my pcv conversion and see how many more miles i can get out of this engine, im going to see about grabbing it so i have it and gathering some of the bits, if and when it blows up, i'll have my replacement. should be damn near drop in from everything ive read, only worry then is the 3 speed not having the right bellhousing.

 

Unless the parts fall in your lap, I'd go with a stock to mild rebuild, not a stroker. They are great bang for the buck, but that's bucks over and above stock.

 

>QUOTE="RodStRace, post: 15701817,

428 crank with mercury 410 pistons is actually a stock "parts bin" engine that ford made in the mid 60s. technically, it would be stock, just mercury stock, and more importantly not a MEL... for as cool as they are, i dont want one lol

 

A shop should be able to put in bronze liners in your guides, or find another shop

Now assuming the 390 checks out okay, do a bit of work on the heads with a die grinder, put a mild cam in it and have it ready to swap in. Assuming you’re not wanting a real high powered pavement pounder, a mild 390 is a damned good runner.

 

I had a bone-stock original 390 in a 1968 (I think) LTD daily driver way back then. I would have driven that car several more years had not another car crossed the center median and hit us head-on. The car had 60-something thousand miles on it when crashed. The engine was a great powerplant. I imagine that car and your 57 weigh something similar.

 

Keep an eye peeled for a 352 as an option. You can always tell everyone it is a 390.

 

the main issue is that im looking at nearly 1400 for the headwork alone... to spend 1400 and still not even make 250hp... makes me think FE is a better choice. it without question is getting finned aluminum valve covers, and the works to make it LOOK like its completely era correct, even keeping the big thunderbird air cleaner.
im just thinking of "if i was back in 1963, and my Y block was toast, what would i do?" I love the y block dont get me wrong, this engine has treated me well. my thoughts are is i wouldnt have all the machining done for the Y and get the younger brother with a harder punch. i wouldnt mind mid 300s for hp, maybe higher. something that'll scare the shit out of you in a car like this while remaining era correct.

shifting my focus away from the engine will allow me to learn to weld better on my new mig tig stick Hobart my father and i invested in.

side note, @Bill's Auto Works, what was the name of the company that made the custom weatherstripping? if im fixing my floors i should probably fix the interior leaks first.

 

Soffseal is the main one we were talking about & they are made in the USA, but there is also Fairchild, Summers & Precision. I am pretty sure Soffseal is the one that will work with you on making something not normally in the catalog.

God Bless
Bill
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ar-transport-hauling-open-or-enclosed.614419/

 

apparently soffseal is under new ownership, curious.

 

You are about to find out why the 1957 Chevrolet is a cult icon (well deserved like ‘32 Ford) and the 1957 Ford is…..I think that car was on Thunder Road or something….Yeah…. I saw one of those on Perry Mason or The Andy Griffith Show.

Engine swaps…..
Nothing fits and is an easy swap in a Ford, not even Ford stuff.
Swaps between engine families…….Ford engine families will not swap easily even in the same dang year model.
It’s a FoMoCo tradition.
Ford always had a “ better idea” and they quite literally used them all.

The FE swap is not quite the “piece of cake” you may think.

1. It’s a ‘57 not a ‘58. Yep, I know it’s basically the same car and ‘58s had the 332 but….the fact still remains no FEs until ‘58. You can pretty much count on something not fitting. It’s a Ford tradition.
Nothing fits but everything thing may can fit with the right combo of parts. It’s crazy.
You may think I’m joking.
I’m not.
For the FE, you’ll probably have to use ‘58 parts but maybe not.
2. Then there’s the 3 speed manual.

What FE housing do you use. What year? What about pickup truck stuff (‘65 up)? I don’t know. Everything should bolt up….maybe, maybe not.

3. Horsepower I have another word for horsepower and it’s my favorite word.
Bullshit. Yep Bullshit.
Bullshit is not to be confused with Horseshit.
Bullshit is what you hear at the rod run, car show or even on line like now from me.
If the engine has not been on a dyno, it’s bullshit.
When a hot Rodder actually reads a dyno sheet. What’s the first thing he says?
This is bullshit.
Horseshit are all the issues you’ll run into working on a Ford.
I know, that’s all I own are Fords except for my Jeeps which have their own horseshit too. At one time Ford made Jeeps.

It ain’t easy.

Then there’s actually doing it right.

I’m all for making repairs temporarily. I’m all for that keeping an old car going but I do have a caution.
It’s real easy to get into stacking poo-poo on top of poo-poo.
It’s real easy with a late 50s Ford to have a cool weathered solid old car or a latter day version of the Manson Murder Mobile.
The line may be thin.
4. Automatics and FEs
Oh my goodness…..
MX, FX Cruisomatics, Mercomatics, FMX, C6……
Uh….what auto do you use of the 256 transmissions Ford made between ‘58 and ‘67?
This is another rabbit trail as well. Shifters? Linkage.
They changed all that junk every other year.
This was a lot easier when the local junkyard had 100s of old Fords.
Hey…..I found everything I need on Marketplace in ……Oregon.
I guess that’s the fun of it.

Here I go and I shouldn’t.

Pie in the sky…..
Be honest with yourself. Is the super duper zippy Dee do dah FE stroker really going to happen?

If head (valve guide) repair is prohibitively expensive, how will a stroked FE race engine be a reality?

Make a choice, take the steps and do it right. This may not mean a full house rebuild but do it or the best you can realistically do. Do the parts compatibility research. There’s fun in that.

I wished I would have put a 406 4 speed in my ‘62 Galaxie back in ‘95. When I went to look at my first Shoebox Coupe, there wrapped in plastic was a 62 406 4 speed combo, same money.
I had a ‘62 at home.
I chose the Shoebox Coupe. Often I think…..
I chose poorly.

The Y block can be made into a very nice runner. You have all the stuff so there’s less horseshit. 1957 was the peak, there’s always finding a good decent runner or building one up like a 312. If look around and make connections you can find good heads or repair yours if they need it.
Do the research, know the specs.

The FE can fit but consider the slightly tongue in cheek, overstated issues above.

If you go FE do it right. Do good work.
One caution all 352s and 360s become 390s and 428s on sale day.
Everything in the junkyard always seems to be a Thunderbird 390.

 

@F-ONE My dad was a Ford man. I helped him on a few projects. I helped a friend with his Ford stuff too. The way you have to dig to find compatible stuff from the 50s and up is...'challenging'. You laid out why I'll never build something all Ford from parts.
A tip of the hat that you are aware and still willing to play in that minefield.

 

thank you for the advice... im hoping if i use a lot of 58 bits itll be simple. as my car was built in august of 57, its a very late 57, meaning i have a lot of the "1958" parts already.

im going to need a LOT more research and follow the "5 p's" i dont even have the engine yet. if it is stuck, i'm still rebuilding it, so im not that worried, just means i get to overbore it.

upon further research, the 390 as-is is a better plan. the 428 crank alone is 800 for around a 15ft stock difference, seems id be better off investing in top end, to make up for it. i will still disassemble and check the tolerances and more importantly clean everything.

yes, horsepower is bullshit. i will GLADLY say my 57 makes 215 hp. but chances are its only in the upper 100s somewhere. i want to be able to feel "350hp" in seat horsepower. does it scare me? if yes, good enough, im not racing anyone.

its less so that the valve guide repair is prohibitively expensive, its prohibitively expensive on an engine that still wont have that much power when i have the capability to have a very good upgrade for only a bit more invested. the engine im looking at is a 390, havent ran the numbers but i trust the guy who runs it, and he said its the original engine when it drove in, i will not be using most of what is on it as is as theres a lot of t bird stuff i simply cant use.

all the vacuum lines are getting tossed, the ac stuff? after the road trip ive about given up on the ac, so long as i keep moving the car cools fine, i'll find a use for the under dash ac box in some other car down the line.

gone, power steering? vanished! all this will have is 3 pulleys, crank, water pump, and alternator.

on the FE i would be looking for a 1200-5200 power band with a (roughly) 5800 rpm redline. i will absolutely need to have the bottom end balanced with the new flywheel and harmonic balancer in order to push it to those higher rpms.

i would LOVE to copy jeff norwells build but with a 390, 390 4 speed column shift would be the dream. but the 3 speed will still put up a good fight so long as i dont use sticky tires.

i _should_ be able to keep everything the same on the engine side minus extending the wire for the coil and resistor... hell, i think that t bird has electronic ignition stock? something something transitorized ignition? no clue. i'll have to wait til i actually own it to look.

 

Thanks.
I don’t think Cat will mind this slight hi-Jack
Honestly if my ‘64 Fairlane Sports Coupe I piddle with, was a ‘64 Chevelle, that joker would have been on the road 9 years ago.
I keep running into issues and I’m funny about it. 64 5 bolt stuff. 65 up 6 bolt stuff. I have a great 68 302 and a good 67 transmission .
I was set for the ‘68 swap. It’s really the same freaking engine but…..it’s not.
I could swap bells and use the ‘64 transmission but…..the linkage on the column won’t work on the later block.
I want to try and keep it original. I don’t want a floor shifter due to the console.
I guess need to either build the 289 or swap the ‘68 302 guts into the 289 block but then I kill 302.
Like I said, if it was a Chevelle it would have been on the road 9 years ago. I’m stubborn. Ford and stubborn does not mix well.

 

$%!^ that reminds me. My brother bought a 67 Fairlane. Different body to the 66.
But every time he tried to get chassis parts for it, they were wrong and he would have to get 66 stuff.
Seems they built the later body using earlier stuff.
Did not appear to be a splice job or hot rod in any way. Nobody could explain that one!

One more. Ford came out with a new engine, named Modular so you would think it was designed around the idea of interchangeability. Three different plants produce the V8 of the same displacement. Very little interchange!
https://www.diyford.com/ford-modular-swap-guide-intakes-induction/

 

the only modular i know is the 92+ ford ohc and dohc engines..

oh it is the modulars. neat. i thought we were talking about the 70s m series engines.

 

i saw a '62 ford with a 390 swap, with a set of headers designed to avoid the column shift (albeit auto), the rears tucked down like normal, but the fronts went out and around the frame rail, they were a multi piece header. i wish i could get my hands on those lol.

 

My main point is to do good work.
Another issue with FEs are the intake and exhaust manifold. They are a pain in the butt. You really need an engine crane to remove and install an iron intake on a FE. Exhaust, count on bolts being broken, they’re just a pain in the butt.
Then you have exhaust clearances.
Really the Y BLOCK is more user friendly as far as intakes and exhausts.
There’s no free pass unless you sell it and get an Impala.

HP…
According to the great minds my weak and wheezy stockish 239 flathead should just be parade car.
I don’t know?
That joker loves to keep going past 70mph plus. It wants more but I have more sense.
Banging gears through town produces evil grins and vampire laughs. It has enough HP for me.
The stock 1 pot flathead pushes the coupe around really well..

 

The 70s M motors were Modified. 351 Windsor (different than other windsors), 351 Cleveland, then 351 (and 400) M, based on the Cleveland but not the same.
https://help.summitracing.com/knowledgebase/article/SR-05051/en-us
Yeah, minefield!

 

This was my’62. Did it look like that when I had it? Heck no, it had a smoky 352 and big crease down the drivers quarter and door.
The owner told me that the crease in the quarter popped out like magic with heat and wet rags but the door skin was too damaged so he found another door.
He dumped the 352 and Cruisomatic and installed a 390-4speed. That’s what I would have done if I would have bought the 406.
It was not meant to be….
I really like my Shoebox Fords.

 

this video is where i saw it. its really what made the push to move from the Y. its even a 4 door!

i wouldnt want it with an auto though. i love the feeling of a clutch, a 4 speed column shift would be the dream, even if i need my own custom steel linkage.

 

Be careful that horse power thing is an expensive drug and very difficult habit to quit
well, maybe not
When you run out of money
and remember
The faster you go the better braking and suspension you better have
It’s called the domino effect

 

Windsors….
There’s only one, the 351. The 351 Windsor is a small block but not all small blocks are Windsors.
221, 260, 289,302, 302 boss, 255, 5.0, 5.0 hp are not technically Windsors although everybody on the planet call them that.
The 351W is kind of like the Highlander there can be an only one.
Now besides the 351W are 351 Clevelands, 351 Modifieds which are similar but different engine families and you can’t forget the 352 which is a big block but not to be confused with the 385 series of big blocks that never had an engine of 385 cid. The original big blocks debut in ‘58 and lasted in trucks until 76 or so. These had the 427 and 428 which are different but in the same family, not to be confused with the 429 which was a 385 series even though they never made a 385.
Now the Clevelands very close to the Modifieds are not small blocks yet Cleveland heads will fit on a small block thus the 302 Boss. It’s possible to do this, Cleveland Heads on a 351 W to make a Clevor. These had the Boss 302 is not a factory built Clevor because the 302 is not truly a Windsor but everybody calls them that.
I have not mentioned Mercuries.
Having fun ?
Let’s talk about auto transmissions.
The original Fordomatic was an air cooled 3 speed but everybody thought it’s 2 speed because it only had D-L on the selector. 1st is so quick was considered a 2 speed.
Since leaves and stuff would make it overheat it became fluid cooled around 53-54. It was upgraded to a true 3 speed and these were called Cruisomatics. There were different ones FX and MX. one was medium duty one was lighter duty can’t remember which. Now the Cruisomatics and Fordomatic both 3 speeds but the Fordomatic shifted like a 2 speed the Mercuries had Metcomatics. Now in about ‘59 the old Fordomatic a 3 speed that was really a 2 speed disappeared. There were only Cruisomatics which are the same family a the original Fordomatic. In ‘60 they came out with a light duty Fordomatic for the Falcon which is a true 2 Speed not to be confused with the old Fordomatic that’s a 3 speed but shifted like a 2 speed. In 62, the Fairlane debut which was a midsize unibody car not to be confused with the ‘61 Fairlane that was a full frame full sized car. The 2 speed light duty Fordomatic proved inadequate and problematic in the Fairlane and Mercury Meteor which is not to be confused with the Mercury Comet which is much like the Ford Falcon but was a completely different car. A new 3 speed transmission debut in 1964 for the Fairlane called a dual range Cruisomatic. Now this is not the same as a Cruisomatic of the MX and FX family but Ford in ‘64 called all its 3 speed transmissions Cruisomatics although the original Fordomatic was really a 3 speed but shifted like a true 2 speed that was completely different from the light duty Fordomatic that was always a 2 speed. The dual range Cruisomatic became known as the C-4, for 1964. It’s a completely different transmission family akin the the bigger C-6. There still needed to be a heavy duty transmission behind big blocks, and Hi-Po cars thus the FMX debut. It’s of the same family as the Fordomatic and Cruisomatic but not of the same family as the C-6 and C-4 that were called Cruisomatics since Ford called all their 3 speed transmissions Cruisomatics. The FMX was developed eventually into the AOD and EAOD. The C-4 has platform went away in the ‘80s although the later ones had a lock up torque converter and it was called the C-5 although it had nothing to do with 1965.

 

@F-ONE I admit, I read some of that, nodding my head. Then I started getting cross-eyed, then scrolled down to see how long it was and stopped! Good on ya for documenting it all but that's why I said I'd never piece together a mid century Ford.
I did just go back up and scan it. You don't mention different starter ring gear sizes in that trans section either!
Learned some of that one Saturday afternoon pre-internet.
I still would have a 72 Mustang fastback with a 460 stroker, big brakes and as much aluminum replacements as possible for weight savings, but if I could afford it, I'd have someone else who has memorized the parts book screw it together and document it for me!