Featured Hot Rods Model A Rake and Mechanical Brakes, etc.. Build thread?

I did have fuel feed problem even with the original up draft carb. When i drove little longer, expecially when it was hot day, it starwed. First thought it was dirt in the pipe problem, so open up the pipe and blowed into it and gas flow fine (still hate the taste of fuel...). But then find out, that only opening the pipe and wait couple of seconds will fix the problem. So i guess it was gas vapor lock problem. Added electric fule pump and haven't had problem ever since, even when swapped to down draft carb. Highly recommended adding the fuel pump.

 

But remember add also pressure regulator. Those old carbs can only hadle pressure around 2-2.5psi

 

I kept looking at them and they looked low but never saw a shot where I could really tell how low they were. I think I was looking at them on eBay. Your link has better shots where you can really tell how low they are.
I had a laser level out checking out the on/off at the bottom of the tank and the outlet of the gl*** bowl filter. It really wouldn't take a lot to get a 97 low enough for total gravity feed and that one just might make it;. Maybe a velocity stack would make up for loss of intake velocity. I mean Henry never had air filters... But what did he know, right?
I really think that would work. Plus it might just pick up enough warmth from the exhaust that it wouldn't care if it wasn't attached to the exhaust manifold like Henry designed.

Robj
rj

 

The Gear Drive intake is similar in height to my old Vulcan. That style will work if you enlarge the internal p***ages in the sediment bowl. They're really small. Put 3/8" fittings and line and only one 90 at the carb (I changed the 90°on my sediment bowl to a straight fitting after this picture). I've put thousands of miles on this setup and run it down to below 1/4 without issues. It Won't! work with any of the manifolds with a riser like Ansen etc.. BTDT

 

Forgot- 060 over, Stipe RR340 cam, Snyders 6-1 head, reds 4x2 header. Great reliable runner!

 

A bit of an update, but first I want to again thank everyone that's posted here helping a new guy find his way.

I did get the frame sandblasted using a siphon pot and the gun from my blast cabinet, using screened playsand from H.D.
This is NOT cost/time effective.
I had a nice pad to work on so at least I was able to re-use the sand, but from a time standpoint it was nuts. I'm sure a pressure pot would be better and I have a 10 HP compressor but I've tried them before and either I get nothing, or it works for a few minutes then a hose full of media.
So screw that, next time I'm taking it to someone and paying the $150 or whatever.
But, I figured I had already started and had the sand so I finished it.



Front Axle:
I email Okie Joe regarding a dropped and stretched [for mechanical brakes] dropped axle.
His response was "Call me, I talk better than I type".
So I called. Very nice guy and took time to answer my questions without making me feel like a dumb***.
He suggested a 3" drop. He said 4" would be too much and he wouldn't ride in it. In hindsight I'm thinking he was saying it would be too much for a dropped AND stretched Model A axle.
But whatever, I'm taking his word for it. He's only been doing this for like 50 years.

Anyway, we talked further. He did say his axle core charge went up to $100 from $50 as his axle guy was charging him more. Fine with me, It would probably cost that much to ship mine from the East Coast anyway.
In discussion I asked if he had '32-34 spindles. And for what I think is a very reasonable price, he's supplying spindles, new kingpins and honing to fit. [I'm sending him my '32-34 perches]
Also magna fluxing the axle, putting it on a jig to make sure everything clears, setting camber, sandblasting and painting.
I'm sure the shipping will be noticeable but one stop shopping has it's benefits.

I'm now working on the front crossmember.
It has some cracks where the spring rests so I need to replace that. As the axle will be a 3" drop, instead of 4, I think I'm going to raise the center of the mount as much as I can, still leaving enough room for the radiator and the U-bolts.
It looks to me that I can get at least 3/4" if not an 1".
From what I can tell, most look for a camber angle of 6-8 degrees. Joe suggested 5-7 degrees. Some say almost as much as 9 degrees. Pete and Jakes says 5 degrees. But what you put into the crossmember all depends on the rake which I'm not really going to know for sure until it's mocked up with tires, the weight of the engine and body on it.

So I'm going to shoot for the 5 to 7 degrees that Okie Joe recommended.
If anyone can add to this please feel free to do so.

So it looks like in raising the top of the cross member I need to keep that at 5-7 degrees?



I've got the Posies reverse eye spring which is a good bit thinner than the stock spring. I was thinking to cut the centers from a few leaves of the old spring to use as spacers on the bottom, but I'm wondering how long the "spacers" should be.
I was thinking 1" on each side of the block? Or longer?



The crossmember was originally riveted but maybe mine had been replaced at one point, [88K mileage] as the rivets had been replaced with 1/4" bolts.
I drilled them all out to 3/8" and bolting it in using grade 8 socket head bolts, [almost look like rivets] and the best locknuts I've ever used. I think it'll be good. Or at least better than 1/4" bolts.




So, other than the general update, my questions are concerning the rake, and how long to make the leaf spring spacers.

Thanks for tuning in,
robj

 

I just realized if I raise the crossmember I'm going to need at least a 1" spacer if not 1.5".
With what I have now I need about 1/2 - 5/8".
I'm now wondering if when I figure out exactly how much I need instead of using a stack of spring spacers if I would be better off machining a solid block. Either steel or aluminum. I'm guessing /thinking it could be closer to the length of the lower block as it is after all just a spacer. Thinking further I guess it needs to be at least the length of the contact patch of the spring at the top.

 

Properly done (hot) rivets do more than just hold the pieces tightly together, they also expand to fill the hole entirely, which most bolt installations do not.

 

I understand. That being said, I had partially welded up the holes in the frame then completely welded up the holes in the crossmember, [which were a little ragged] and when clamped in place, re-drilled them for a proper fit to the frame. I'm thinking 14, fine thread 3/8" grade 8 bolts torqued to spec with mil-spec lock nuts and red loc-***e should hold it fine.

 

Yes, and drill your holes with a slip or .001-.002 interference fit.

 

Thanks.
I think I'm pretty close to that as I "almost" had to screw them in. Using a mag drill for accuracy helped quite a bit.
robj

 

Just chucking in my 10p worth (UK) I run 7 degree of castor on my A 80mph on the tarmac 70mph on the sand

 

Thanks. Your car is obviously lowered but it looks like it sits somewhat level? Is there rake present?
I think what I'm struggling with a little is how much rake, [actual and rubber] I'm going to have and how much, [if any] additional caster should be added to compensate for the rake.

robj

 

Hi Grumpy,
I'm still figuring out my front end height math. I hate to ask but are you pretty positive about this? "also gives you an additional 3/4" drop compared to the stock Model A spindles".
It's entering into my equations.
thanks,
robj

 

Lots going on in this thread. But the guys pointing you towards using the Ford pile of parts and pieces have it figured out. At least in my case they are using many of the same components.

In the picture above I used the T Rear Spring with the full pack on a '36 Rear Axle with Model A perches pruned off a junk A Banjo and welded directly to the rear top backing plate bolt holes. This gives you the correct width for a '36 to T or A Rear Spring width. (the '36 is 1" wider without this) adding the 1/2+/- shackle mounting eyes on the stock piece gives you back the 1". You can use the A rears, or '33-'36 brakes. But if you use the '33-'36 you'll need to figure out the E brake. The A is the easiest as the rods all jive. With the later ones I made a slider on the rod and used the A brake handle on a Klings mount. It lets the foot actuated brake rods slide through the E brake sliders. A simple stop on the E brake rods pulled the mechanicals tight for parking. Sounds a little complicated but it isn't when you see it.

The front is an A Wishbone with a '33-'36 Axle. The trick is to heat the perch eyes on the end of the bones and with a free perch squeeze them to the correct dimension for the axle versus the fatter A. Otherwise you gotta run spacers, I hate spacers. Then use the '32-'34 spindles, and the '36 front brakes. Your Rods will need to be made the right length. Make sure both are absolutely equal. Same for the rear rods. Reversed front A spring and stock Houdailles. '46-'48 rears in this photo, stock fronts.

This is an older picture but there's thousands of trouble free miles and uncountable smiles on this combo in this giggle factory. And yes the Banger is the most fun you can have for the price.

Looking forward to seeing your car on the road! Happy Motoring.

 

So, I got completely sidetracked in a discussion of the Posies reverse eye front spring.
Link to that here;
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/posies-super-slide-spring.1344195/page-2

What I ended up doing is removing 2 of the very short top leaves and subs***uting 1 shorter one made from my old front leaf.
As the Posies spring is set up for a SBC [or other small V-8] on a full-fendered car I figured that's probably about 400 + or - pounds more than my banger with no fenders or bumper so,
I felt safe removing 1 main leaf. The one I removed left the remaining leaves actually more symmetrical and probably more "progressive".


So next up is repairing/raising the front crossmember where the spring attaches. It looks to me that I can gain an inch there. [Well, that was the thought anyway]

The good thing about mocking up, you get to figure out what will work, but sometimes more importantly you figure out what won't work.
My original thought was a raised center section asymmetrical to clear the lower curved section of the bottom of the radiator. Looked good on paper, but mocked up? not so much.
It was pretty obvious that the spring would hit the curved end and the center section needs to be flat.
[the white pattern was the initial thought for the center section. The tan pattern is the profile of the spring] Pretty easy to see it will hit on the right side.

"If" I was originally aware this was going to end up being a hot rod, I would have bought the radiator that was flat across the bottom. But I didn't so I didn't.
I will be able to raise the center maybe 1/2" so that's something.



Right now I'm figuring out the angle of the crossmember to take in account the planned rake.
The general consensus seems that the caster should be between 5-7 degrees, [to the ground].
Although the top of my crossmember is pretty wonky, [it had a plate welded on top] when compared to the upright level is right about 6 degrees, [with the body leveled]



So my rake,
Front:
Drop axle 3"
32 spindles 3/4"
Reverse eye
spring. 2"
1 top leaf. 1/4"
1 long leaf. 1/4"
Crossmember 1/2"
Total. 6.75"

Rear:
Posies reverse
eye spring. 2" [they are really not clear on this. Might be 3 "]
Posies longer
shackles. 3/4"
Remove a leaf?
or 2?
Total 3 to 4"
So mechanical rake, 3 to 4 "

Rubber rake 6.00x16 front, 7.50x16 rear so 3/4" additional rake.

A guesstimate of 4 to 4.5" total rake.
My plan is to raise the rear of the frame 4" [?] and adjust the front crossmember to 6 or 7 degrees for castor.

Does any of this sound right? Feel free to speak up.
thanks,
robj

 

I did a tech article on this that spells out the moves with pics look up Lowering my model A

 

Ron,
Thanks so much for the heads up to your journey. I'm reading with great interest. And to be honest I'll be reading it more than once I'm sure.
The more I get into this, the more I see how many options there are to achieve [in general] the same thing.
And the folks that chimed in as to what they're doing or thinking about doing are really helpful as well.

Maybe the great part about doing this is that there is no real "cookie cutter" approach as if there was, everyone's car would be the same and how boring would that be.

I had someone mention that '32>34 spindles give an additional 3/4" drop. Then someone on your build said they didn't.
Any idea, [for sure] if this is true or not?

Right now I'm working on the center of my front crossmember [needed repair] and my plan is to set the frame up to my anticipated rake, then adjust the crossmember to the 6>8 degrees for correct caster.
I really haven't found much talk about this so I hope I'm headed down the right path.

Anyway, thanks again.
robj

P.S. Nice job getting rid of the yellow!

 

I had someone mention that '32>34 spindles give an additional 3/4" drop. Then someone on your build said they didn't.
Any idea, [for sure] if this is true or not?

Right now I'm working on the center of my front crossmember [needed repair] and my plan is to set the frame up to my anticipated rake, then adjust the crossmember to the 6>8 degrees for correct caster.
I really haven't found much talk about this so I hope I'm headed down the right path.

Thanks again.
robj

 

Link to side discussion of rake and setting up front crossmember.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/dumb-model-a-question.1344467/#post-15758005