Featured Technical 1932 ford roadster juice to bendix or disc

I have a 1932 ford roadster that I inherited from my grandfather. He originally had juice brakes in the front and the rear and I changed the rear to the boling brothers bendix brakes last summer.

now I’m debating if I should change the front to their bendix brakes or maybe try disc brakes. I’ll probably get new spindles in either case as I don’t want to grind down my current ones incase I ever want to switch back one day.

my semi issue / concern is my master cylinder is under the car bolted to the cross member. The pedal ratio is 4:1 and no matter how much adjusting I do I can’t seem to get a firm pedal that I feel comfortable with.

given that pedal ratio is it better to go with drum or disc or do I really have to add a brake booster to get firm pedal in either case?

thank you

 

I put real Lincolns on the front of my 32 sedan (replaced some 40 drums) and they work great. I’d suggest getting some Boling Lincolns to match the rears. If you currently have 40 to 48 drums you won’t need to change the hubs and drums. And grinding the top edge of your current 37-41 spindle is way easier than switching them out. Nobody will ever see it if you ever go back.

 

Having no ******** idea of how much, how far or how fast you figure to drive the car or what you are used to driving doesn't help a lot.

In the real world you have take it out where you are alone and have lots of space where you won't get in trouble if it gets out of sorts and put the brakes through their paces and see if you are good with them, need a mild upgrade to bendix or the Hell no, I have to be able to really stop comes into play.

Most of us old farts on here grew up driving drum brake cars and the things that go along with driving drum brake cars are second nature, Giving ourselves room to stop behind who ever is in front of us and if we see a later model 4 wheel disk brake car adding a couple of car lengths to that space and always knowing where out out route is. We don't even think about it as we have always done it. My BMW qualifies for cl***ic plates in this state by age but with 4 wheel disk brakes it stops in half the distance my 48 does with Bendix brakes on all four corners.

That said, personally I'd go with the Bendix drum upgrade if you feel the need for an upgrade and drive accordingly. From there consider how you drivem where you will be driving it and to some degree what the other guys you run with are running. If you are the only guy with drum brakes on all four corners you had best be the guy who leads the pack as you have the longest stopping distance. If everyone is old school and has drum brakes you just make sure that Leroy who is always fiddling with his phone is ahead of your rather than behind you.

 

Thank you.

Yeah my grandpa put a flathead and 3 speed top loader in it so I'm not doing 70 on freeways. Has some fun acceleration but I normally take it pretty easy. Only drive it around the neighborhood area after work when less people on the road and about 35 mph max. Once a month I take it about 10 miles to a car show but all street roads and 45 max.


Houston has horrible drivers so I keep far away from everyone even in my modern cars.

I like the Lincoln style break idea. Don’t have to swap master cylinder.


4:1 pedal ration not ideal but maybe I’ll look into a brake booster down the line.

 

FYI. -- It's illegal and highly frowned upon to add disc brakes to a car with a Flathead and 3 speed....

 

10 percent off Boling Bros brakes. Cornhusker Rod & Custom

 

Isn't the obvious solution to fix the pedal ratio? It's not disrespectful to your grandfather, I'd argue, as way back guys weren't necessarily as I formed as we'd like to think we are now, they were doing the best they could with what they had.

Chris

 

@krylon32 thank you for the offer. I bought my rears from you and have been very happy with them. I’ll for sure message you when I make the purchase. Got to finish re***embling my 1950 f1 after painting but thinking of next projects already.

@Happydaze that is fair on pedal ratio. I’ll probably change out that too but haven’t been able to find a brake and clutch kit that bolts to original cross member and states the pedal ratio.

And I take no disrespect, I attached a poster I found of his setup from the 80s-90s before he swapped it to its current setup, second photo. From what I’ve read on 4:1 ratio, If he kept the same pedal from that setup it would make sense that the ratio would worked on old setup because it had brake booster ***ist? he probably just figured he would swap over the pedal one day then just decided to leave more space for stopping

 

Ah ha, not as old timey as I imagined! Looks nice, 80's or 90's build? Just fit a booster and be done with it imo. It's not really about pedal feel, it's about stopping power. Manual and 4:1 just doesn't provide enough.

Chris

 

Yes below is a how he had it in the 80s. I was born in late 80s and how it is now is all i remember so he probably swapped it over sometime in the late 80s to early 90s. When i changed the rubber front brake hoses they were dated 86 i believe. I never knew why he didnt change them more often till i realized to change them i had to remove the radiator. I re-ran all new lines while I was at it.

I’ll look into how to fit/install a brake booster on this forum. Its got the clam style early ford distributor cap and from what I’ve briefly read there should be a port somewhere around there. Currently running a single Stromberg from a edelbrok tri setup (1st and 3rd Strombergs are capped)

 

don't know what your plans are, but you might look at remote...universal...style brake booster for your application
it is a vacuum booster that is divorced from the master cylinder...just a thought

 

Is there a vacuum port on a Stromberg? Nope. Would a port drilled into the intake provide adequate vacuum? Don’t know.

My sedan has a mount for the master attached to the backside of the original K member. It places the master so that the rod is just below the K. This will make the pedal ratio as good as possible with the stock pedals and mount. If yours hangs down lower ( probably does if you only have a 4:1) you can do a little fab and get it more into acceptable territory. An afternoon of bending and welding steel, then some new lines. And if you are lucky, you’ll only need to drill a new hole higher up on the pedal arm.

 

So.... your Grandfather (Bless his Heart) took a not inexpensive Kugel built, Jag suspended SBC capable of keeping up with any California freeway traffic and in his quest to have a traditional ride placed the body on an outdated underpowered ch***is that is relegated to parade duty that you are fearful of it stopping from 45 MPH. Put a SBC in it and disc brakes and drive the hell out of it.

 

Nice car!

 

since you asked I will give you my opinion .the brakes that are on your car if working properly should lock up your tires at speed. if your tires will slide that is all the brakes you will ever have. I panic stopped my 32 roadster with juice brakes a couple times when different people had pulled out directly in front of me. it would defiantly lock the tires. if you feel the need to update defiantly the bendix, disk look bad on a traditional fender less car

 

@winduptoy i did see something like that on here too. I’ll look into that. Maybe easier.

@alchemy yeah ill have to look around the intake more but i dont see a port. I did see people selling small spacers / risers for the strombergs that have vacuum ports on them. I may check out that too. I’ll also do some measurements on the pedal and see how I can improve the ratio

@redo32 yeah he built a coupe in the 90s and I think he transferred a lot of the roadster parts to it (see photo). Put ac in it and nice seats and made that his cruising car and went back more traditional on roadster. I left for college and got a job out of state so never got to talk much about the builds with him

@tim troutman ill have to see if I can lock them up on my street and probably mess with the adjustment screws while I wait to buy the bendix ones

 

I'm not Spock, but many times don't see the logic in people's actions. High tech coupe and a traditional roadster, I can understand that. Got any pictures of the coupe? Oops, now I see the coupe. I guess the Jag stuff disappeared.

 

A couple comments.
One, being able to "lock them up" is a poor evaluation of overall braking performance. Maximum deceleration without any lockup should be your objective. Always.

Two, I would caution using any power ***ist with a drum brake system on a small light car, especially Bendix servo style. Best option is to first change the pedal ratio ,that has already been suggested.

Start with good proven brake system design, not band-aids, imo.

 

I’ve done some research and agree I’ll probably start with trying to get a 6:1 or 7:1 pedal ratio then work from there.

I emailed earlyv8garage as I saw people had referenced him.

I also came across this: https://www.industrialch***isinc.com/new-product-1932-ford-bolt-in-brake-and-clutch-pedal-set/

Has anyone tried this?

I also came across this: https://www.millworkshotrod.com/products/1932-brake-pedal?_pos=7&_sid=5e4cab166&_ss=r

Has anyone used this? Is it easy to swap the brake pedal on the ***embly?

 

Might be a good idea to post up some pics of the pedal arrangement as it is. It clear that the original build with the Jag suspension has long gone. It anyone's guess as to what you've now got as, apart from the roadster body, the two cars that came out of the original build may possibly contain precious little of the source.

Chris

 

As mentioned, a pic of what you are starting with might shed some light on this. All I can add is that I have done business with both industrial ch***is and millworks and both have great stuff.

 

I started with a virgin 32 and other than welding a new arm to the brake pedal that points down, all my other brackets are bolted onto the original K member. It’s really rather elementary stuff. Anyone who can cut, bend, and weld steel can make one.

 

Do what Alchemy said. You got the bowling bros on the rear why not match them up,

 

I’ll send some photos this Sunday of the setup. Out of town till then.

yeah I emailed boling brothers to see what all I may need/get. I may get new spindles from them so I don’t have to grind down my current ones. I also see millworks sells them pre-cut. I’ll have to check on price difference between them and boling brothers, knowing angle grinding new ones wouldn’t be fun…. https://www.millworkshotrod.com/pro...5&_sid=5e4cab166&_ss=r&variant=44210941886702


I’ll buy from @krylon32 when I’m ready as he was a great help with my rears.

also debating between 1 3/4 or 2 inch shoes. My hubs and shoes are fine now but I want to get a shoe size that is easy to find parts for in the future. I forget my wheel lug spacing so got to check that too.

 

I think if grinding your current spindles scares you, you might be better off finding a kit for all the conversion. Be aware you will need bolt on steering arms too, because repro spindles don’t come with integral arms. Spending maybe $400 to save a half hour of grinding.

 

If your existing Ford drums are good you are limited to 1-3/4"; if your drums are worn out, go with new Boling Bros drums and 2" shoes.

It really is no big deal to clearance the spindles for the Bendix brakes; lot less work than changing stuff.

 

Ok finally got home and took some photos (attached).

from this website: https://prewarford.com/blogs/technical-articles/early-ford-spindle-identification
It appears I was wrong and I have 37-41 spindles?

I had forgot about the steering arms so yeah I’ll probably just grind the notch in mine now….


Going to take some photos of brake pedal when I jack up the front tomorrow.

 

Just gotta love that Dago axle!

 

I had no idea what a Dago axle was but I just googled it and came up with these sites:
https://kustomrama.com/wiki/The_Dago_Axle

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=3972

crazy, I grew up in San Diego. My grandfather moved there in the early 50s and lived there his whole life. I found some San Diego Prowlers shirts and plaques. He got the roadster in 1960 and I got some super 8 film of it from around then. Below are the oldest dash plaques I could find but my mom may have earlier ones

cool history lesson, thank you @RICH B

 

One of the things that has not been mentioned but is integral to getting a solid pedal is bleeding the brakes. AND, not just that, but making sure the pedal rod ***embly FULLY pushes the master cylinder piston all the way in so that ALL of the air is out of the system. Like Alchemy, I'm running stock '32 pedal but with no mods to it, hydraulic MC (I think early 60's GM) behind the K member and my pedal feel is firm. You may also want to see if your hoses are swelling under pressure. This will add to soft pedal feel. Even if they're new, I'd still check them. If they're Chinese, they could be junk already.

I agree with Tim Troutman that you can only brake as hard as your tires can hold the pavement, but like V8 Bob said, locking them is not a good sign of an optimal braking system. Case in point, if your shoes get soaked with brake fluid, they lock up/pull easily. Similar but different, if they get grease on them... well, they don't work very well at all.

I think it's odd that you opted for only a rear set of Bendix brakes initially.

Personally, I don't think you need a booster. I think you need to tune up your braking system or make sure it's working correctly. That roadster is not heavy and the early Ford hydraulic brakes were designed for much heavier cars initially. They should work great for that car!

Good luck. Keep us posted!

3blap.