Hot Rods Cast Front Axle & Tire Wear

When I got Howard (daily driver deuce pickup) I noticed the front tire wear was a little odd. The left front was virtually perfect and the right front showed wear on the outside of the tire. This spring I put on a new pair of 500/16 Excelsior radials. I had the front end checked and the toe was on at an 1/8th and the caster at 6 degrees, nothing can be done about the camber as it's a cast Super Bell axle. After about 6000 miles I'm there again, right front shot left front fine. I've sold 100's of Bell axles on customer ch***is over the years with no complaints. Before I invest in another pair of $350 each tires I need to solve the problem, Open to suggestions or even better a fix. Thanks

 

Do you go through many round abouts?

A few of us noticed our right fronts going faster as soon as our daily commutes started involving more of them. I notice even when you walk through a large parking lot that the front right is almost always more worn. Maybe it’s something else but I’d say there’s a good chance it’s not the axle and it’s the road until you get a for sure measurement telling you so

 

Not any roundabouts here, flatland farms.

 

I like to run radials at zero or 1/16" toe in, I would still check the camber....it can be fixed.......at least a stock axle can.

 

Cast after market axle, normally can't be bent?

 

New axle...... then new tires.

 

Or put an original one back in……….
Will this one work ……….?
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/anson-dropped-deuce-axle.1343210/

 

Pretty sure you can’t.
You could strip the axle down. Level it, then slide the king pins in and see if one is say 2 degrees and the other is 4 degrees as an example.
If that’s the case, a shop might be able to bore it over size and true, then sleeve it.
But maybe getting a Henry axle and sending it for a drop and correction would be best.
***uming you don’t want to use the one you have in the cl***ifieds.

 

Cast iron can be heated and bent

 

It Is malleable iron, it can be bent enough to correct the camber.

 

@krylon32 You teased us! You explained the issue, gave us the specs for 2 out of 3 alignment measures, said that you would not adjust the third, but didn't tell us what it was!
Either the measure is off or there is something else causing the wear. Corner weights? Rear axle thrust angle? Some sort of harmonic issue (worn shock on that corner)?

 

Axle is not cast iron, it's cast steel. Different animal altogether. Yes, cast iron can be heated and bent, but not without changing the properties of the iron.

 

Interesting. Have you asked any Australian’s if their left front is worn more to confirm the round about theroy?

 

Another vote here for looking at thrust angle. I've always had my cars on a 4 wheel alignment jig, usually Hunter. I've usually been surprised how good I'd got it anyway with my rudimentary methods, but as well as that re***urance it's useful to have the precise data. Extra handy to know the camber and toe of a rear end you've been welding on!

Chris

 

Flip the axle around and see if the left front wears out?

 

Love to use the original axle I have for sale.but I've got this truck sitting fairly low so it needs the 46 inch axle and the Anson axle is 48 plus dropped almost an extra inch over the SB one.

 

Hi Gary. From my experience aligning big trucks, here’s my diagnosis/2 cents worth.
I found many straight trucks like this.
You may already know this from your long career, but maybe it can help a noob.

First off, is the RF tire scuffed or not?
Run your bare hand back and forth across the tread. Feel any edge on the tread going in one direction more than the other? Outer toe wear should feather edge to the inside as the tire scrubs sideways.
If there is, it’s toe scrub wear, not camber wear. What was the camber reading when it was aligned, right and left?
Toe/scrub wear is a relatively faster wear rate, as opposed to slower camber wear.

BUT, if there is scuff or scrub on one tire and not the other, something is putting all, or most of the 1/8”+ toe into that tire, while the other is running relatively straight ahead.

Eliminating all left turn driving, it comes down to a couple of possibilities. Either the front axle is not square in the frame, or the rear axle is not, and is pushing at a slight angle, with the resulting wear ONLY on the right front. As the RF develops a wear pattern, it wants to pull slightly to the right, and the small correction needed accelerates the wear rate.

Another remote possibility is both axles are parallel to each other, but the frame is slightly diamond from its previous life. Crossmembers are parallel but not perpendicular to the frame rails, which would be back on the right. The rear axle is going straight, but the frame is tracking to the left, putting all the 1/8” toe into the RF. Easily checked with common point plumb bob drops to the tape on the floor and comparing the diagonal dimensions.

However, if the RF camber is very high, like + several degrees, it COULD wear like this, but the truck would have pulled to the right from the beginning and your correcting the pull would have been noticeable.

Another remote possibility is driving only two lane roads with a higher crown than four lane allowing the truck to drift to the right, BUT the high caster setting of +6 degrees would be trying to make the truck go straight. Is the caster equal side to side?

Bottom line (finally!) :
If there is scrub/scuff only on the RF, it is a combination of more than just a static toe setting.
FWIW, I would prefer to see 1/16”+ total toe in.

Good luck, it will take some sleuthing and questions answered, eliminating the possibilities until you hit the guilty combination. It is more than a “set the toe and let it go”.

Bill

 

Need to see pics of said tire wear, actually like to see pics of both tires, then need to know camber readings.

Can't/shouldn't bend cast cold...

Also how is rear track? IF the rear is tracking off it could be pushing the front tire.


...

 

Gary, We noticed this phenomenon clear back in my Pete & Jake's days.
Seems more noticeable with radials.
Just turn up the radio, and don't worry about it.

 

Gary,
The wear issue could also show up with side mount steering, as the box and draglink would keep the LF tire straight (providing there were no worn components), but a worn tierod end on either side or worn right side kingpin bushing would show up as toe scuff on the RF.

BUT, it would be toe OUT scuff, with inside shoulder wear, as the tires have the tendency to toe out as they roll forward.

Cross steer, with the box connected to the RF spindle, then back to the LF cancels out the RF wear unless there is some other input like axle angles or frame issues.

Your condition is the opposite. Guessing that you have side mount steering.
Let us know what you find out.

 

Vega steering, about 3000 mikes on the tie rod ends and king pin. I went out to the farm this afternoon and brought back one of the spring take offs as it's better than whats on there. Both of the take offs exhibited some degree of outside tread wear although not as bad as the right one is now. The takeoffs were changed before I went to hairpins from bones. I think the rear is ok. I didn't disturb it?

 

As @RodStRace asked, what’s the camber measure on each side? Should make it a little easier to know where to start looking.

 

Well, as mentioned, the RF wheel is constantly fighting road crown and @Pete Eastwood says he's seen it since the 70s.
OP sounds like it's a bit more than that, but without pics or numbers, we are just offering our experience and guessing.

 

Swap tires to the other sides.

 

Rather than swap side for side I thought I'd turn them around on the rim and put the worn side on the inside. The tire store may not do that as Nebraska has a law about how much tread needs to be left to rotate or turn the tires?

 

That's why eveyone needs his own tire machine. Even the manual type.

 

Hotrod A wrote what I would have written pretty well word for word as far as checking the wear. Even the least bit of excessive toe in or out will push the rubber on the tread sideways on the tire. If it is that bad the edge of the tread bars will look like they have feathers on them.
I'd have to see the tire just as Hotrod A would to be sure but my bet is on excessive camber on the right hand wheel. Normally to drive right on most US roads you want 1/4 degree "less" camber on the p***enger side tire than you have on the drivers side to compensate for the crown in the road as a starting point. Excess camber causes the tire to ride on the outside or inside rib depending on which way it is excess. Being as you have worn two tires out exactly the same and there isn't any excessive wear on the left tire I would say camber. Time to get the angle finder out and check.
I'm thinking that the camber could be within factory specs Because the factory called for between 1/4 and 1 degree positive and 1 degree positive was common with tall skinny tires and dirt roads or poor quality roads. Factory specs even call for 1 degree positive on First Gen Mustangs and if you run 7 inch wide tires on them with that you will eat up the outer tread bar in a few thousand miles.

I can't help on the cast axle, that has to be the metal experts who understand how metal changes it's molucular structure if you heat it. A Forged axle you just set it on an alignment rack that is set up to adjust axles and move it around to do what you want it to.

I did find some specs that lostone posted in 2013 that sound right on the money.

 

I grew up in a place called Milton Keynes in England, its commonly known as 'The Home of Roundabouts'. I can 100% confirm this tyre wear phenomenon is true, outside front tyre always wore much quicker than all the rest.

 

I rarely encounter a roundabout. Gotta go about a 100 miles to find one.

 

True tho, that wear shows most on R.F.
Has to do with it's a different road than the middle.
( cracks, holes. graded tilt for drainage etc )
Any equipment discrepancies notwithstanding.
BTW How do our brothers in Australia and England find the wear on L.F.