Projects Shade Tree Model A Speedster Kind of Thing

I am using fabric for everything else. I needed that cowl to be metal because I'll probably end up attaching a windshield and mirrors and whatnot, and you have to back those up behind fabric, which needs to be done before you skin it, and that takes a lot of planning, which is not my forte. I'm kind of an evolutionary designer. Haha. As far as the hood goes, I'm worried about the heat. I'm going to use Dacron, which I'll heat shrink with an iron, but I think the heat rising off of that engine would make it go slack again. I don't think the weight penalty of those two parts is going to be all that significant. I ordered the hinge from the largest river in the world.

 

Looking good, bud. It does remind me of an airframe. Menards has hinges like that, of several lengths.
AH

 

Got the hood panels roughly cut out. Same deal as the cowl, paper pattern, old cabinet, etc. I almost made them too short, but I think they will work. The driver's side also has some rust through in one isolated area, but I can figure something out. They kinked a bit due to my primitive methods, as well. All this ac***ulated error may well add up to a failure and re-start. I'm going to go to the coast for the weekend and let it percolate a bit.







It is starting to resemble in real life what I've been seeing in my head, though. So, that's good I guess.

 

I really like this thing. I think it's a noble quest to try and build like those guys did in the beginning. It's one thing to stick to a build philosophy, but your car has the other important element; the thing just looks right. Keep on keeping on!

 

Well, dang. That's really nice of you. I'm still piddling away over here. I temporarily pop-riveted the hinge to the hood panels, just 3 on each side, and carefully trimmed them to fit (more or less). I remember when I made the hood on the old car I was so proud of the clean, close tolerance fit I had gotten, only to find that the twisting of the ch***is made the hood ends jump up onto and off of the radiator shell and cowl, so I had to trim them back to a bigger gap. I'm trying to pre-empt that here with bigger gaps from the get-go, but I may have overdone it. It does look nicer with everything semi lining up, though. Starting to get a real idea of how it will all come together.







Those gaps look worse than they actually are. I made the wood framing under the back of the hood low enough that I could add some kind of gasket, since that spot is actually over the interior of the car. If I have to drive this thing in the rain, I at least want my feet to stay dry. Haha. The radiator shell needs the straps replaced too, so the hood panels are sagging a bit at both ends. I think I'm going to add some reinforcing of some kind at the ends of those panels to help them keep their shape, and along the bottom edges where they overlap the tubing (also need to trim the bottoms of all of the panels), but that will happen at a later stage.

All of my bends have creases in them. Not sure what to do about that. I may have just made some pretty labor intensive patterns. They will certainly do for now and allow me to move on to the next steps.

 

I'm a little early, but Happy Thanksgiving.

 

^^^OMG! Those cuties! Happy Thanksgiving. You have much to be thankful for.
Andy

 

I do, indeed. I have been extremely fortunate in the kids/in-law kids/grandkids department. Hard to have a bad day anymore. Knock on wood.

 

Can't beat grandkids for an excuse to play in and old car

 

Well, it's been a few weeks. Just the way it goes, sometimes. I am ready to try to skin this body with some heavy (8 oz) Dacron cloth I bought. I also, after copious internet researching, bought this water-based contact cement designed for fabric-covered airplane construction.



I've got no stake in that company or anything, just being forthcoming about what's going on down here. Can't even tell yet if that stuff is any good. I do need to mention that it is designed for much lighter fabric than I'm using here.

Anyway, I pulled the body frame off of the ch***is and lightly sanded the paint where the glue was going to go, then cleaned it with denatured alcohol.



Those little wooden knees are just to fill the gap where the frame is stepped.

Next, lay out the fabric and cut it oversized by a few inches.



I cut darts where brackets and tubing interfered, and along the edges that curved enough to pucker it up. This glue is a contact cement, so you first paint the tubing with a thin coat and let it tack off, then you can d**** the fabric over and press it down to temporarily hold it. If that's not strong enough, you can run over it with a clothes iron and it will give you a stronger bond that can still be pulled apart to adjust. I ended up having to use the iron because my fabric is too stiff. Once you get it where you want it, you paint over the glue lines from the outside and let it soak through the cloth, then wipe the leftover glue off. It is supposed to fuse with the first coat on the tubing and dry strong. Mine's not fully cured yet, so I'll get back to you on that. If it works, I'll be able to trim the extra off and it shouldn't fuzz up because of the glue. Then I can iron the edges down onto the tubing. Knock on wood.





Once it's dry enough not to pick up leaves and such, I'll flip it over and do the other side. Don't be alarmed by the wrinkles. I'll go over the fabric with the iron and it should shrink down flat, and tight as ****'s hat band. If I guessed right and didn't leave too much slack. Apparently, if you put it on too taught to begin with, it can cause problems when it shrinks. We'll see, I guess.

One of the reasons I haven't made any recent progress is that this stuff needs the temperature to be over 65 F for the application and full 4 hour drying time, and we just haven't had that recently. I'm tying to make hay while the sun shines now.

 

well-when you are done-you can apply for an 'a&p' license!

 

Dope & fabric! This thing's gonna fly!

 

Had to Google A&P. I thought it was a grocery store from back in the day. Hahaaa. This business is starting to look better. I went out this morning and checked my glue job. There were a few spots where the stiff fabric had pulled away from the tubing before the glue dried. Again, I don't want to cast aspersions on the product, I'm trying to make it work with fabric it wasn't meant for. This stuff is very heavy duty.



If this were an airplane fuselage, that fabric would be about the thickness of typing paper and would d**** over the tubing and the glue would soak through better. I figure, since I'm more interested in strength than weight, I'd try this. Also, I want to make a skin-on-frame boat, and this was an opportunity to experiment. Anyway, I just took the iron and went over all of the glue lines. Seems to have kind of welded it in. I guess we'll see. Worst that can happen is I have to pull it all off and go with a lighter fabric. Seems to be stuck pretty good, though.

After all of that, it was time to try shrinking this stuff, just with a clothes iron. My understanding is that, with this thick fabric, it takes more than one session to get it all fully tight. Here's the before and after, after one p***:





Pretty promising to me. Those crease marks were completely gone at first, but as it cooled it relaxed just a bit. I'm hoping that a few more shrinking sessions will do the trick.

I'll leave you with one more shot, just because I like the way the little chines at the bottom of the p***enger compartment turned out. I threw them in there to give a little more hip room.



If I don't make it back on here beforehand, Merry Christmas to all.

 

Wow, this is going to be great!
You have amazing skills;
if you lived around the corner, I'd hang out at your place just to be part of something like this.
Regards Harald

 

Thanks, Harald. You are too kind. Seriously.

We did a little prescribed woods burning after I made those posts this morning, but before I left I cut and glued the fabric that was covering the openings on each side of the motor. One is needed for the carburetors, and I just thought the other one would be nice for working on the starter and water pipes and whatnot on the driver's side, and for symmetry. After I got home from the woods I found time to run out and trim off all of the excess fabric and take a few more pictures. I'll have to wait to shrink the front until that new glue has had time to fully cure. I did throw the wood parts on the stern, just to see.







I like the way the tubing looks against the fabric on the inside. I'll paint the cloth a light color, just to keep that contrast. Still got some wrinkles and puckers to chase out with the iron, but I'm going to wait on that until it's bolted down to the ch***is.

That'll probably be it until after Christmas, or maybe even New Years. Can't wait to plop it back on the frame though, just to see how it's looking, so you never know...

 

you could even sail it over to gilligan's island---(3 hours).... very cool!

 

What a cool project. The cloth application reminds me of the older balsa rc airplane kits.

 

Lookin' good rwrj! You've built something out of nothing!

 

Appreciate the comments, as always.

Of course I couldn't help myself this morning.







That's all just laid on there loose, so pardon the gaps and such. I do think that rear 3/4 view validates my decision to add the bottom tray and bulk out the stern section a bit. Here's the obligatory shot with yours truly for scale:



As expected, laying it on the ch***is introduced some new wrinkles, but I can shrink those out once it's all bolted down. It is a small car, but I do like it. As our British friends would say, I'm pretty chuffed. Haha. I think I'll make some type of removable screens to go in the gaps by the engine. Evantually.

Ho Ho Ho, everybody.

 

I want to see video of you getting in & then getting out - please. Love your car. Next floor so feet don’t drag. & any paint planned?

 

Oh hell no. I just got to where I can stand still pictures of myself on the Internet. Hahaha. I have floors built already, just don't have them in right now. I will paint it, but have to get it bolted down and shrunk tight first. I think it will still shrink after being painted, but no need to take chances. I'll pick a light color, I think. I kind of dig the way the framework shows through the fabric.

 

Are you using a special varnish, the kind used on gliders, ultralight aircraft, and airships? Here in Germany, we call it "Spannlack".

I don't know what it's called where you are, and it strengthens the fabric. It looks fantastic. Regards, Harald

 

More small planes here in Alaska per capita than anywhere in the world. From hand built super custom STOL (short take off/landing) compe***ion planes to back yards with several crashed or donor models, they're everywhere. Hard to get 20 people together without having a pilot or two.

Anyway, while I don't know anything about fabric skins, it seems like I was told long ago when they were using muslin that the paint they used which used to be called dope (before so many other varieties of dope became available) was what shrunk the fabric and made it tight and firm. I do know that if you snap your fingernail (like an 8 year old boy flickin' a booger at his brother) against the skin of a fabric covered plane it thumps like a drum. Maybe a trip to an airplane repair shop would be helpful. Most of those fly guys are extremely happy to chat and could probably give you some pointers that would save you some time and experimentation. Maybe load your body in the back of your pickup and take it along.

It certainly is a boat tail speeedster, I'm loving this project.

Don't want to hijack your thread, but here's a quick look at what a STOL compe***ion looks like for the guys that aren't familiar.

 

My dad built a stick and cloth T boat tail speedster back in the early ‘90s. Don’t recall the “weight” of the fabric, but was no thicker than your average cotton T shirt. Held up well in the 20 years that he drove it around. It took road debris well, never had a puncture, but stretch and wrinkles could be shrunk back without hurting the paint

 

It's all coming together! Are you familiar with Aircraft Spruce? They are a supplier of all that is light aircraft, their here in Georgia, and their prices are reasonable. I would second Fabber Mcgee on getting to know some aiplane guys, there's a whole world of guys building and maintaining dope & fabric airplanes. Fly-ins are a great place to find them.

 

@mohr hp, I do know about Aircaft Spruce. I'm using a heavier fabric and tubing here because the weight penalty as a percentage of the overall weight is a non-issue, so the aircraft parallels are a little more limited than you might think.
@Fabber McGee, I love those STOL videos. Always wanted to get my pilot's license, just hasn't happened yet, somehow. I do have a daughter and son-in-law who fly F-18s for the Navy, so who knows? This thick Dacron should shrink down fine with just heat. The finish doesn't really come into it like it did with the old natural fabrics, so I think I'll just brush-paint it.
@Kevin Pharis, I'm glad to hear that it will still shrink after it's been painted. Any pictures of your Dad's car? Sounds pretty cool.

 

All caught up now...Happy New Year @rwrj and to all you others . It's really coming together nicely...pretty close to motor sounds stage...rumpity rump...

 

Happy New Year to all. My first experimental attempt at covering this body was a failure. The problem was, as I had feared, that the thick fabric just isn't compatible with that aircraft glue. It relies on the second coat of glue soaking through the fabric and bonding to the tack coat on the frame, and it just didn't work. What happened was, as I shrank the fabric, it kind of pulled and rolled off of the tubing. The glue lines failed in sheer. Again, that is not the fault of the product, as I was well aware that it was designed to be used with much thinner fabric. My theory is that the glue just didn't have time to soak all the way through before it started tacking up. They say you can thin it with distilled water, but I didn't notice that in time. Oh well, live and learn. (You'd think I'd have lived long enough by now to learn to follow the manufacturer's recommendations, but... Haha.)

Anyway, I decided to give it a try with a more appropriate weigh of cloth. After seeing it on the car, the heavyweight stuff seemed a bit of overkill anyway, and I had all that glue.. So I ordered 4 yards of 3.5 ounce Dacron (the first try was with 8 ounce cloth). Compared the thick stuff (pictured in post #1303) this is dramatically thinner.



It's the heaviest airplane covering they sell at Aircraft Spruce, designed for extreme use and seems tough as hell, so I hope it will be fine. Before I tried glueing it on, there was one more issue that had been griping my ***. After looking at the car with the first covering job on it, I really disliked those square-cornered openings by the engine. Just looked unrefined. I decided to make little pieces of wood to fill the corners in, grooved for the tubing on two sides and with a concave shape on the third side.





Honesty compels me to admit that I got lazy and glued them in with some very non period correct marine adhesive goop instead of drilling through the tubing and using screws. Don't judge.



Finally, it was covering time. I won't repeat the description of how this works, except to say that I trimmed the edges very carefully so that I got as close as I could to a 360 degree wrap around the tubing at the glue lines.





I don't have a close-up, but if you look at that bottom rail, you can see the fabric wrapped all the way around the tubing.
My cloth did arrive with one little puncture, and I guess I could have kicked up a fuss about it, but I decided to patch it, following the directions this time. Ha. I don't mind a patch showing, no silk purses over here.






Then I trimmed and glued the openings with their new rounded corners. Much better, in my opinion.



I have noticed that this glue will get kind of tacky again in high humidity situations, so I didn't try shrinking it until I had a dry, warm day so I could slap a coat of Rustoleum on right after and hopefully seal that glue a bit so it doesn't slip. I'll turn it over when it's dry enough and shrink and paint the other side. We'll see, I guess.



First coats are always a little splotchy, but I went pretty heavy on the glue lines.

 

Outstanding.

 

Lots of experience with the ACS Poly-Fiber materials as fabric covered aircraft structures was my favorite part of my business restoring and maintaining vintage aircraft. If you follow their manual its pretty hard to mess it up.