Art & Inspiration clearcoat respirator

what filters do you use on a respirator when you are painting basecoat clearcoat with hardener

 

You really should be using a fresh air system but at a minimum you need a full face respirator with organic vapor filters changed way more often than you think you should as your eyes and skin will also absorb the isocyanates.

 

^^^this^^^

Isocyanates are very bad and a super small molecular so you must use special filters that are designed for them.

And as stated they will Penatrate every thing on your body.

My body shop managing career was ended due to isocyanate poisoning, your lungs swell up, rub against your rib cage then its hard to breath and feels like your having a heart attack because of the lung/rib cage contact....

..bad sh#t....


...

 

To answer your question AND any other PPE question on any paint product, refer to the data sheet for that product.
Here's a random example.
https://conceptpaints.com.au/sites/default/files/content/MS-100_2K_Clear-SDS_-_Aust[1].pdf
Yes, it's boring dry facts. But it is the correct information to help you follow the most current, correct procedure to safely use the product.
Read it before use and hopefully before purchase. Every product should have a sheet available online.

Believe it, there is other information in these you should know before using the product too.
This applies to everything from the wax and grease remover, through the primers, to the base and clear. Reading the instructions isn't weak, those details are written in someone's blood.

 

I started working with my Dad in 62, He had a body shop, while spraying Lacquer or Enamel we were always Lacksadaisical about protecting our Lungs and got away with it for years, But then about 1980 the Govt. got involved and changed the formulas, By then I had my own one man Shop, and kept doing what we always did, spraying with "Reactive" Reducers and Hardeners in the new primers, paints wearing the two cartridge masks, I had read all the warnings about proper protection and didn't take it serious. Now I am on oxygen 24/7. Supplied Air Helmet is necessary if you want to breathe like everyone else. your health is the most important possession you have.

 

Sorry to hear, @Dave Mc .
I remember as a kid I saw quite a few old-timers with missing digits. Of those that talked about it, it wasn't war, but farm or mechanical stuff everybody just took risks with. Your story is a more modern but just as damaging one of risks known but ignored. I did things that also were risky or just plain foolish when young.
As has been said by many; If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself!

 

I can't hit like after reading that man. Sage advice, I hope all take note.

 

Like the time a couple years ago when I painted a car with catalyzed urethane clear coat with my 3M mask and couldn't figure out why the paint smell was so strong. Turned out I forgot to put the filter cartridges on the mask and painted the whole car without filters. Some folks are less sensitive than others I reckon.

 

I use these:


I paint maybe 3 to 6 times a year. I'm 68, painted my 1st complete at 14-15yrs old. If you're going to paint all day for a living then yes, get the whole fresh air gig and protect yourself. If you're a hobbyist the more important factor is fresh air to the work area. Nobody stands in still air full of fumes painting dangerous chemicals. If you do I'd call it natural selection. A head sock and that mask you should be fine. Today's **** is less dangerous than some of the more hallowed product of the past. Isocyanates are way low, but the rest of it is sure to **** you up. Fun fact, not everyone can even do this ****. If you're sensitized to toxic compounds already (some don't know they are) it won't matter if you're in full hazmat certified gear, 1st whiff and you'll be hurtin for certain. Not trying to scare you, I met 1 guy in all these years that was. You need the 95 particle filters and charcoal VOC cartridges. A head sock for a complete, optional for a quick few parts. Last, and I've said it before, CLEAR THE VAPORS AS COMPLETE AND AS SOON AS LOGICALLY POSSIBLE. No fog? Not good enough. That "smell" is where the bad **** is. Fumes. Invisible vapor as the parts or car is purging/drying. Tomorrow when you walk in to admire your work? That smell means there's still invisible silent killers lurking. Open doors or kick on your extraction gig you used to spray the stuff.

Let's review:

Moving air is a key component to PPE.

Charcoal cartridges are NOT optional.

N95 ain't ****, that's only the solids.

The remaining vapors after are just as deadly so ventilation is important after as well.

Get out between coats to fresh air. No matter what you do you're gonna have a urethane "hangover" the next day. You'll know you painted. Part of it is your breathing pulling through the respirator for the hours you sprayed, and the other part is the minor amount you're sure to get in the process. Be smart. There's no heroes who spray deadly finishes bragging how tuff they are. They were 90 by the time they were 50 if they did t take precautions. At the same time your not spraying your stuff at Chernobyl so don't go overboard. Did I mention how critical ventilation is? I meant to. Good luck, be safe, be smart.

 

Funny thing is I was random drug tested for the last 30 years working in the aircraft industry.
Seams they never tested for Isocyanates, MEK, Lacquer , or any of the many chemical compounds we worked with.

 

Yes, sir.
Had a fellow student in one auto body cl***. Used to run movie theater projectors. Ended up very allergic to certain fumes. Absolutely could NOT handle fumes even across the big shop. They had already burned that down. Goes to show each person has different levels of tolerance, but even if you are immune to that first exposure, it's all subtracting from your health.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/80-144-1109.pdf

 

One of the worst times for inhaling the crud, is while mixing and stirring the materials, with your face right on top of it.

 

Ones for pesticides are the only one I can’t smell paint fumes thru…. My choice!

 

I use a 3M P or N-95 for my painting needs never had any issues and can’t smell fumes. Plus it got me through COVID so it ain’t all that bad.

 

Before switching to fresh air systems, all of the body shops I worked at would do respirator fit tests. One thing you most certainly want to do is be fresh shaven if you are going to paint with a regular respirator. Every time we had a failed test it was due to either a beard or even stubble. If you can smell fumes, you're breathing them in.

 

I have gl***es so I used a full face mask from 3M but if you read the filter instructions you will find that the filter is only good for a certain number of hours after air exposure. The biggest problem with the filters on a mask is that they don’t get changed soon enough or often enough. I worked with a guy who used his filtered disposable mask for months before getting a new one because he didn’t like the smell of it, he was probably smelling his own breath. lol

 

I got drug tested once and failed, which really shocked me.

I mean, I really studied hard that weekend...

 

For others looking in contemplating painting with catalyzed materials, let me be clear (no pun intended):

USING ONLY N95 MASKS FOR PAINTING CAN BE FATAL. IT WILL CONCENTRATE THE HARMFUL VAPORS INSIDE THE MASK.

They're ok for dust, grinding, etc. Deadly for catalyzed materials, stupid for lacquers and the like. So even if it's a "**** it I just wanna paint these 3 brackets..." you'd be safer with nothing but a fan behind you than with an N95 only. Be careful my HAMB brethren, not overboard, just old school careful. We want you around so you can show off your work

 

I was going to mention the above as well, regarding the N95 mask.

 

I guess it depends, like Dave Mc above says. Do like carrying around an Oxygen Tank later in life ??
There are NO "Respirators" that can filter out the super harmful chemicals in "Iso" hardened Paint Shop materials..
I paint in this stuff. The "Outside Air Pumps" show up for these systems all the time at swap meets I have 3 extra.

 

Nacifan, & Highlander, & others:

So, for future use; how *do* you properly filter the **** outta the intake of the fresh-air-pumps? & just where do you get that much really clean air? *Not* being funny here. I'm thinking: situation in a wooded area(wind swirls), in a small-ish(~24'x~28') garage. Can dump/pump out the fumes from the garage, but they go/end-up where? Haven't seen any OutsideAir Pumps f/s at swap meets, maybe don't know what to look for. ???
I learned 50yrs ago how Isocyanates(super glue fumes) can/will screw up sinuses/taste buds, along w/paint-hardener fumes exposure messing w/ lung capacity. Nothing to kill or maim me, but it hasn't been kind.
Used dbl-cartridge masks at work for yrs, even w/stubble p***ed the fume-test(s) & couldn't smell anything obnoxious, but painting I'd clean-shave(fear of possibilities). Was planning on some form of painting suit & head-cover, to be determined by whatever paint-type I eventually end up using, to keep skin-exposure to a min.
More I think about it, should let someone else do it, but that kinda takes the "fun" out of it & there's still the "want to", just because...
Marcus...

 

The last time I was painting on aircraft parts using a full-face supplied air mask I started smelling something, not paint, but still nasty. Turns out it was the lead mechanic taking a smoke break right next to the outside air pump. I got to chew his *** for a change...

 

Here is a picture of the fresh air system I have; there is both an intake and output filter on the pump. I don't know the recommended change interval on them; the guy I bought it from had a new pair which I installed and haven't really used it much since.

I put the unit out the back door and around the corner to draw clean air.

I found this one at the Roadster's swap a while back. Noticed a similar pump at the '50s swap a couple years ago.

 

Those probably sold before I could find it... .;( .
Looks like an A/C vac pump. Don't wanna breath those fumes...
Years ago I did think of using airtanks like the firefighters or divers use, do have a single tank, harness, n regulator, but don't know time vs air useage. Doubt 1 tank would be enough for a whole paint session. Things are surprisingly heavy, & ***bersome. I think I'm way overthinking this...
Hell of a waste of material to start, & have to quit do to bad air, testing or not. Well, it'll be awhile before I have to really be concerned, but I'd rather figure it out in advance, if possible.
Marcus...

 

I create a slight draft in the paint area. Air in, air out. Send it out of the bldg. This is the be smart part. If the wind is gonna blow into your area that day then you have to wait. If your paint area is in terminal "swirl" where everything blows back in, **** it. Can't paint there. Attached garages? Just don't. Don't even think it. When I say ventilate I mean fresh outdoor air in.

Please don't start getting all EPA climate blah flipiddy boo blah. It's 1 job. It's 2 parts per TRILLION in the big picture. You won't be killing polar bears. By the same token don't be a nuisance and paint relentlessly with excess fumes for your neighborhood. Once they don't care. Twice is ,"Hey there's that smell again..." More than that you'll get a knock on the door from the sheriff. Be courteous. But when I talk about fresh air I mean into the work area, not in my respirator. You want the fog to be gone in like 2-3min. You want moving air for at least 20-30 min after (temperature dependent). I'm not gonna a waste a manicure about getting the area clean for paint. Figure that out for yourself.

 

This was an odd find as he had it in tote; just caught the sign under his table, typical early morning flashlight hunting at Roadster's. Complete set up, pump, hose, belt hook, hood, & extras.

Oil less compressor not like a HVAC vacuum pump.

Little more h***le with the extra hose; but nice cool fresh air and no fumes make it worthwhile.

I've seen some that hook up to the same hose from your compressor you are painting with; but I wouldn't think that would be a safe source.

 

The fresh air I have is Hobbyair that will run to hoods. When I purchased mine, the seller told me to get the hood versus the mask. The hood has the hose off the rear so the chance of dragging in your fresh paint lessons. He told me it was a PITA and it is but knowing you did as much as you could to stay healthy is better than retrospect. I have 80' of hose and the unit is outside the shop in fresh air. It was less than $500 20 years ago so you know it costs more now. There are some that are more convenient but more expensive. If I'm painting outside I use the 3m face mask that comes in the reusable bag.

 

All good questions fellow hamberz. I'm glad this hasn't turned into a pissin' contest over a real safety concern.
Its so real and has been for years and years that the European paint manufactures(and they all use "Iso" hardeners too) have a little symbol in their TSB(Technical Service Bulletins), the "how to use this material" sheets, that show a little guy with a "Fresh-Air" Hood on for all to see.
So 1 more thought. I was the helper back in the day that discovered his boss, the painter I worked for lying on the floor in our Spray Booth, shaking because he was having an Allergic Reaction to the "ISO" hardener in the clear he was spraying with a cartage respirator. Now does that happen to everyone ?? I don't know but I don't want it to be me or you.

Next do you ALL know that these "cartage" respirators use an "Activated Charcoal" filter deep in side these little units ?? Activated Charcoal is only good for so many hours when exposed (opened) to the outside air.
Quoting the "Instructions" on a new 3M 07193 Respirator, "Time Use Limitations: If the Filters become damaged, soiled or if breathing becomes difficult, leave the contaminated area immediately and dispose of the filters. If used in environments containing oil aerosols, dispose filters after 40 hours of use or 30 days. PERIOD

So since most people Don't read all information provided with these respirators, I break it down for you (please read your info ) You have 40 hours of use once you open the sealed bag these Activated Charcoal Filters come in for them to be effective. So, would keep these respirators in a sealed "Tupperware" styled container that has been "burped" to get the air out after each use. I would only wear it when mixing Iso products and Spraying. Then Immediately into to the "Tupperware" with the some masking tape on top with the hours used and date.

Now about a Fresh Air Pump. These are small Oilless Compressors. I bought my 1st one in 1996 when I started paintin' full time again back then. Now for swap meet finds. I found 1 at spring Carlisle in 2022 and found 1 last year at Hershey I donated to the college where I teach.
Back to the original question. Each of us need to way the risks with the benefits when it come to personal safety.
Me I'll vote to play it safe ........

 

In my old house in Michigan which had a detached garage, I put a sleeve in the wall to the ba*****t and had the air supply pump down there and ran the hose out through the sleeve. The hose was long enough to just reach sound a car in the garage. Worked well.

 

@Nacifan I will admit, the last couple jobs I've done were quick and small. I used the HF filter masks shown. Not best practice as has been discussed. One in a booth, one in the driveway. In both cases, the materials sprayed were more expensive than the mask at 20 bucks. Even the primer for the T was a hundred bucks.
Guess that's kind of like the How Expensive Is Your Helmet question. However, in both cases, I used the mask for spraying and that was the end of that. I bought another for the next spray. If it has been opened, I consider the time has started and even when I put it back in the bag, squeeze as much air out as possible and seal it back up, after 2 days it's out of service. Unless you are doing a whole bunch of spraying like anothercarguy did on his 38, 2 days should be a cutoff, IMHO.
I don't know if the bag is filled with nitrogen like chip bags, but I choose to err on not counting open air time but exposed time, including back in the bag.