Customs Mig or stick weld mount brackets

I own two electric welders, both about 40 years old now. My MIG is a 90/105A 120V Century, and my arc is a Miller 225A AC/DC unit. I've never seen any reason to 'upgrade' as these do everything I've ever wanted to do. While TIG has its place, I'm not welding chrome moly or building pressure vessels so see no need for one given all the trick gas and stick rods for more exotic metals that you can buy now. I've welded 18 gauge stainless with 3/32 stainless stick rod more than once. But I'm not trying to impress anyone with 'pretty', I just want something that won't break. To each his own...

I use a simple rule for which welder I use. If the thickest material I'm welding to is 1/8" or less, I'll use the MIG. Any one piece thicker, I'll switch to arc. It's not easy to get good penetration on thicker material with a MIG. If you're dealing with thick-to-thin, the trick is to keep your arc puddle favoring towards the thicker material, just letting the edge contact the thinner side. And you can't just strike the arc and then drag it, you do need to lightly oscillate it onto the thinner side to be sure you get penetration. I couldn't begin to tell you how many pieces of 14 gauge (just slightly thicker than 1/16") Unistrut I welded to thick flanges (open cut end against the flange in most cases) on columns and beams at work with no failures, this is how I did it. I got to where I could fill 1/4" gaps when I got a ****ty fit-up...

If you're unsure of your welding skills, I'll recommend you get some s**** 1/4" and a 'slightly-thinner-than-the frame' s**** and practice before committing to the car. If you're using a DC machine, start at about 90 amps with 1/8" rod. AC go 5 to 10 more. When you get a weld you can't break, you're ready.

 

Sold my stick welder once I bought my Miller mig. Never missed it so far, and the mig has built numerous cars, doing all sorts of fab since.

 

And using a REALLLLY OLD, probably AC welder that you push or pull the plunger to adjust the heat....

I use to call myself a welder until I got a chance to work with some VERY good young buck welders....
now I just call myself a mechanic that knows how to weld....

LynnW

 

Nothing more satisfying than seeing the slag curl off a good stick weld!

 

Yep, I bought my Miller multi-process (only used MIG in the 3-1/2 years I've owned it) and my stick welder sat so I sold it. The MIG is so easy to get good penetration and good welds. I just welded some 1/4 to 3/8 without issue.

 

If I’m Mig welding anything 3/16” and thicker I always grind in a bevel to ensure good penetration.

 

I interpret it to mean “frame thickness and 1/4” plate brackets”.

I see how others might interpret that the frame, too is 1/4”.

Probably not, though, unless it’s a skid steer frame.

 

Most racecars form the 1950s until MIG became affordable were built with 6010 or 6011, and that most racecars today are either MIG or TIG welded.

Bruce Dostal's NASCAR Sportsman was welded with 6011-

Bruce flipped the car at Fonda; at one point he was looking down at the flagger!

 

My dad used 6011 to build all his ch***is until the late 1980s when he was finally able afford a MIG
I don't have any photos of the MIG welded ch***is

IMG_0089 by Robert J. Palmer posted Apr 3, 2018 at 6:10 PM

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IMG_0090 by Robert J. Palmer posted Apr 3, 2018 at 6:10 PM

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70538401_2444889678881899_2449766014682923008_n by Robert J. Palmer posted May 12, 2020 at 7:21 AM

25348372_731250973752320_5335412406982509433_n by Robert J. Palmer posted Aug 24, 2018 at 1:45 PM

 

Yes 6010 and 6011 produce very strong welds (farmer rod) however when capped with 7018 the weld becomes much stronger. MiG and tig are the way to go I agree. Many migs are too low powered for good penetration on heavier stuff. The 220v and better yet 480v3 phase are really good for almost anything as long as there isn’t any wind.
Dan

 

OP says he's proficient in both mig and stick. Claims both mount and frame are 1/4". Pictures would be nice but if he is qualified in both, he shouldn't need our advice as to size and type of rod or wire to use.
If stick rod. I would use 3/32 6010 for root p*** and 3/32 7018 for cover.
For Mig. I would use .035 wire and spray process if really 1/4" material.

 

As was said above, I'd put a small bevel on the brackets and just burn em in with the MIG. I'd also weld 1 side full, if weld is desired on both sides I wouldn't go the full length on the opposite side. Just a couple worms to back up the bet and avoid embrittlment on the frame. I've built a lot of bracket racers and pro street cars. None of my **** ever broke and the bracket cars got used hard. Some em are still kickin *** and that was mid to late 90s. You'll be fine.

 

I learned how to weld back in the 60's and haven't done any stick welding in many years, a few months ago I drug out the old welder and gave it a try, after I stuck the rod several times it started coming back, what came back is how much I dislike stick welding. HRP

 

I have a Miller 200 MIG but I'm no weldor, I think MIG spray transfer welding is more of an industrial application, requiring much higher amperage machines, I saw it used where I was a machinist and it is pretty impressive.
I'm pretty sure the average home builders' MIG machines use the globular transfer welding method.

 

I had some big commercial customers as an electrician that did huge mig welding jobs. Mig welding is not relegated to small or thin metal! I watched one of their welders setup a Miller 400 amp mig on a framework designed to weld up the outside diameter of an entire ship shaft that was already over 6 ft. in diameter to make it an inch larger! The shaft was in a 40 ft. Cincinnati lathe and turning at extremely low speed as the guy ran the welder making a continuous bead the length of the shaft. It was pretty cool to watch the lathe creep along turning the shaft and the welder slowly moving along so each bead slightly overlapped the previous one. Beads were around 1" wide per p*** and the welding went on for days!

 

I tested out my Lincoln tombstone before I sold it. Hadn't arc welded in about 3 years. I had the same recollection come flooding back.

 

When I was a millwright I used nothing but stick, lots of 6011, 7018, Jetrod and occasionally 11018. Some beads would be 20-30 ft. long. Now I'll use Mig for light stuff, Tig for things 10 ga. to 1/4'' thick and 7018 for pretty much everything over 1/4". I've also had decent luck with AC 7018 with my old Lincoln tombstone...

 

Ah yes Jetrod or 7024 love it. Beautiful beads. I can’t find it at any of the Farm Ranch stores.
Dan

 

I worked in one fab shop where I was expected to burn a full box of 3/16 or 1/4 7024 per shift daily....

LynnW

 

DDDenny you are correct in spray mode uses higher amps. You can use spray mode with as little as 180 amps on 1/8" material. I was referring to what I would use if the OP brought his motor mount to my garage to weld. I spent a lot of years in a large fabrication shop, and I bought equipment for my home shop based on what I had at work. Right now my Miller XMT 304 cc/cv using a LN 25 wire feeder is set up for 98/2 gas, 250 amps/425 wire speed on 0045 wire that I'm using to for a 20 foot equipment trailer made of 3/16" mild steel.
I understand that probably 98% of the board doesn't have access to my welding machines. I can weld 1/4" plate with one p***. 120 volt/140 amp, 110 welder 4-6 p***es and a 220 volt/200 amp globular transfer welding method.( short arc) maybe 2-3 p***es. Lot depends on duty cycle.
Since we don't know the particulars of the build, it's hard to critique the material thickness being used.

 

I've got a Lincoln 175 that I use most of the time but also have this beast that I bought close to 40 years off a trucking company that had it for sale for 85 dollars. If you can get the 220 power to it there isn't anything that is too heavy to weld with it.

It all depends on who's hands are doing the welding because Paul Charles in Central Texas could lay a bead with his red Lincoln toumbstone Could lay a bead that rivaled anything that most guys who think they can mig weld looks like and will never fail on you. The mig does make it easier for so so welders to make nice looking welds though.
I use the mig most of the time but as I weld outside a lot of the time I use the stick because it doesn't care about wind conditions.

 

I built and repaired a lot of dirt track race cars with my Lincoln tombstone welder. When I opened my welding shop in 94, the first thing I bought was a new 220 v Miller mig welder. The old Lincoln hung around the shop for years, mostly being used to weld cast iron (which I didn't do often). Occasionally I'd fire it up so I wouldn't forget where I came from, it often took a bit of time to get back into that groove. It was a good reminder why I bought the mig welder, changing rods on the Lincoln every few minutes was a pain. There was a certain level of appreciation watching the slag roll up off the freshly made weld bead though.

When my grandson hit 17, he and his buddy had a project they wanted a welder for, so I gave him the old Lincoln and all the welding rod I had for it. By the time he was 21, he was moving around a bit, and brought the old Lincoln back to me for "safe keeping." I had already closed the shop by then. He recently bought a house with a garage, I'm hoping he will take the old Lincoln back...

 

MIG-maybe it’s good…

 

Crash test proven many times on a fast 1/2 mile dirt track (measured around the inside).

 

MIG is easier to use. Make a couple of p***es if needed.

 

I've got the same Monkey Ward welder - my dad bought it. Later we mounted a Sears Tig unit to it. Using the high freq with regular sticks lays down some great looking welds. I never could get the knack of welding aluminum with it.

 

Built with a stick welder in the 1960s and still going strong.

 

I had the very same equipment for years , it worked fine . It’s all in the knowledge of the operator . Preheat the 1/4 in plate a bit and the small MIG will work fine . I was have been ask the question many times “ can you weld this for me ? “ My usual answer is “ I can weld the **** on a Snowman , if you will hold it for me !”
Smart Azz !

 

Errr... Why is this even a question? Take some of the material and do a few test p***es to check for penetration and quality, you'll soon know which works best for you. As other already noted above, both stick and MIG would work on 1/4".

Oh: and for a motor mount, strength is not as critical as for say a ch***is or roll cage. Really the only forces it has to resist are the engine's weight (partially, remember this is shared by the transmission mount) and torque twist. ***uming the mount is properly designed (again, not rocket science) you should have no problems.

 

Used to work with a guy whose arc welds were so good the slag would just curl off; never used a slag hammer, just a wire brush. I came close, but I couldn't quite match his skill! I used to be certified in arc, but got spoiled by MIG and TIG; haven't touched an arc welder in 30 years.