My 64 C10 truck has the original 230 6 cylinder. It's been in the family since new and is completely stock although we been through the engine 2 times through the years. I'm about to tear it down again and suspect it's going to need at least a head job but, given it might need a major overhaul, I would like advice on: 1) camshaft - both brand and type (lift, lobe separation angle, duration, etc.) 2) pistons/rings 3) bearings brand (mains, rods & camshaft) This will be done right but it needs to be done with cost in mind. I can't afford to convert to a roller cam, trick head work, etc. I just want recommendations on your experience building a good solid 230 with good off the shelf readily available parts for a strong 230 for torque in a truck. I appreciate any advice based on what you have seen and/or experienced. Thanks, greg
To use the engine for what it was intended, low end torque to move it quickly, the stock grind is best with a few degrees advance.
X2 fuggediboud changing the cam. FWIW, the 250" cores are still around and won't cost any more to rebuild than your twice-worn-out 230". If available, use hypereutectic pistons and moly rings. IIRC, the 230" uses the same pistons as the 283" V8, so lotsa choices. Some truck 230"s came with dished/low-compression pistons. I'd use the flat-head-two-valve-relief versions for a bit more compression. It might be that the UEM Keith Black 165KTM piston and ring package could work for you. Have the block line honed and the deck surfaced. jack vines
s So you folks are saying use a stock grind cam but what brand or does it matter? FWIW I checked compression today and got this in cylinders 1-6: 30, 120, 105, 105, 85, 130. Yes that says 30… After that “dry” compression test I squirted oil in the #1 & #5 since they were the worst and rechecked and they both remained unchanged at 30 & 85. I believe this may suggest it isn’t a ring issue? I then removed the valve cover and turned it over and all the valves look to open the same amount which I believe tells me no flat cam lobes. I’m getting no water in oil or steam out of the exhaust so I ***ume I have valve or some head issues, correct? Thoughts?
TRW or Speedpro stock replacement will be just fine for a camshaft. I have a Mellings stock replacement in my 250. All the six cylinders from 230-292 used the same heads, they just changed the numbers over the years so you can widen your search if a replacement is needed. The 230 and 250 blocks are also the same, most use the same numbers, only the bore and stroke changed. You might find a factory cam on e-bay if you look long enough. I had a new one laying around I couldn't give away so it went to the s**** bin. If it needs bored, you can use 283 V8 flat tops in the 230, or 307 V8 flat top pistons in the 250, its a quick and easy way to go from 8.0:1 to 9.0:1 compression for added performance. Just be sure they are true flat top and not a universal piston. Swapping the crank for a 250 adds cubic inches and is a drop in improvement with the corresponding pistons. Standard valve job and possible hardened seats on the exhaust. I trashed a head I had laying around due to the seat damage it had, 4 or 5 of the exhaust seats were gone. Go easy on the right front head bolt, it takes less torque than the rest of them. You can break a block if not carefu. There is very little material around and under that bolt due to the water pump placement. I believe that one bolt is 70 ft lbs, the rest are 90 ft lbs.
I appreciate the information. I suspect valve and/or head issues. I've never checked a hole with only 30psi compression - I was shocked. I'm going to do a leak down just to see if I can discover with some confidence what my problem is. In the end, I have to at least pull the head. I'm doing the leakdown test to see if I should just go ahead and pull the entire engine. I wasn't planning on this but it looks like I have a project that I can't avoid. In your opinion, if I have to go deep in the motor, should I automatically replace the camshaft anyway? I know we never replaced it on this engines previous 2 rebuilds so it is the original from the factory. I can always use a dial indicator to check the lobe height and compare all of them to see how much wear they have.
If it checks ok, no reason to replace it. Keep each lifter in the hole it comes out of, do what ever you have to do to keep the right. But on the same note, check each lifter really close, make it it still has a crown on the face, not a dish. If lifters are worn, go ahead and change cam at the same time. It's all a can or worms, the more you look, the more you are going to find, and don't think it's going to be cheap. Six cylinders cost more then V8s to fix, parts are not any cheaper.
Yes, if oil didn't raise the compression it points to a problem in the head or the head gasket. Valves is the most likely cause. You could do a leak down test to pinpoint the problem, but the head has to come off either way. Once the head is off the cause will probably be evident.
Thanks that's exactly what I suspect after the oil didn't raise compression in the test I did. I'm going to do a leak down test just for the heck of it. I'm interested in what I'll see but realize, regardless, the head is coming off. Thanks.
I know what you say is correct. I like this old 230 because it's original to the truck and this truck was bought new in my family. It's a piece of history for my family. But, that said, it's hard not to reason that now is the time to put a small block V8 in place of the old 6... More power, relatively easy swap, parts really easier to find and, from what I see, actually cheaper...Talk me off a ledge here but if I have a lot of parts that need attention other than just a good extensive head job I would be crazy not to do a V8 swap I think. But then that leads me to other issues - I'll need V8 motor mounts, larger radiator and I'm sure other things I'm not thinking of now.
I just talked to a gentleman at Oregon cam grinding yesterday, I believe his name was Ken. Very knowledgeable and helpful. I was talking with him about doing a regrind of a cam for a potential 230 6 cylinder engine for a race car. Prices he quoted were very reasonable and has a wide variety of cam profiles that would suit the need for a maybe just-a-little-bit-over-stock rebuild. They also reface hydraulic lifters. The old original ones are reported to be better material than today's new lifters. Lynn
I wouldn’t v8 swap unless I just wanted to I just changed out a 350 for a 292 in one. I like the 6 better.
Replaced the 230 in my '63 4x4 Carryall with a SBC when I was in the Army. Absolutely a simple bolt in swap. Used V8 truck motor mounts. and the 230 bell housing. The clutch pivot for the six was extended from the block with a bracket. Unbolted it and screwed in a new pivot to the block. Used the same alternator. Used the original radiator until it died. replaced it with a used one I bought at a wrecking yard by the Mustang Ranch in Sparks.
51504bat you sure make it sound good to go V8. I was thinking I would sometime in the future but I wasn't planning on my 230 biting the dust like it has this early. I'm going to pull the head and, if I only need a head job, I don't mind spending that money and get back going quick. If I have all kinds of head and bottom end issues I may go V8. I appreciate the information.
Base on my experience the 230 is a good motor. Don't know how many miles were on it when I bought the Carryall but by all evidence it had a hard life. One time I was home on a 3 day p*** and I blew a hole in the top of a piston. I asked an auto machinist I dealt with if he thought the truck would make the 500 miles back to the Depot I was stationed at. Turns out he had a core exchange waiting to be picked up. We swapped out the bad piston for one from the core engine - connecting rod and all. Made it back to post in time for guard mount. Engine ran so well I drove it the 1,000 mile round trip home on another 3 day p*** before the V8 swap. After that the 230 was installed in another GI's car. It was still running when I got out.
That's a great story. Because of timing and my busy schedule I truly hope I only have head issues. In that case I'll have the head worked and stay with the 230. If I go V8 I want to locate a 350 vortec block from the late 90's (an "880" casting number) so I get the benefit of the center bolt valve covers with the good stock heads and the roller cam.
If you go to a V8 I might be interested in the 230 as a core....providing I'd be lucky enough that you're located nearby. Lynn
I find it interesting you blew a hole in a piston on your 230. I'm wondering if that's what I've done in my #1 cylinder in my 230. Heck it only has 30psi compression. That is so low I figure it would have more than that if there weren't rings on the piston at all! Could it be that I have a hole in the piston? I'll be able to tell I think with the leak down test I'm going to perform.
The way I knew I had a hole in the piston was there were exhaust g***es coming through the dipstick tube. Howard(RIP) the machinist pulled plug wires one at a time while the engine was running. When the exhaust stopped coming out of the dip stick tube - that was the cylinder with the piston with the hole it it. Since the Carryall was a 4x4 there was nothing in the way to drop the pan, pull the head and R&R'd the bad piston. Didn't even have to use jack stands. Plenty of room to crawl under the truck. But then I was a lot younger then.
Howard Cams uses a hardening process and is known for less failures thatn other brands, you should give them a call this may be a good option for you. https://www.howardscams.com/hydraul...ter-kit-1962-1984-chevy-194-230-250-1000-4000 You may want to get these too https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...pyTvslykl5rhBqZlG2ctWYi1pXJXoNAkaAue_EALw_wcB
If the lifters are concave, replace the cam and lifters. If there’s no spalling you’re not far from it if this is the third rebuild. A couple of my buddies had mid sixties 230/250 pickups when we were in High School and my dad would occasionally drive home the C30/230/ four speed long narrow bed from work. I have a soft spot for the inliners, although at the time I thought everything should have a v8. That didn’t change until years later when I ordered a 79 Econoline with a 300 and a four speed overdrive. I drove that everywhere for years until the body was completely shot. Simple to work on and dead reliable.
I'd suggest going for a 292 if you decide a change is warranted. It will go in just like the 230 and they are known for their dependability and torque. Of course I'm a six cylinder fan, my first car (late 70's) was a '64 Chevelle with a 230/Powerglide combo. It wasn't fast but that thing was bulletproof- it had to be to survive a teenager with too much testosterone and way too little common sense!
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