Well as a guy wanting to get his mostly stock 1954 331 Hemi in his Model A I'm not that thrilled that ill have only about 200 HP if that with a stock compression and cam engine that is going to be about 200 pounds more with a cast intake and stock water pump and maybe the exhaust manifolds than a SBC . The truck will feel like a turd compared to my other cars and stuff. The fact is a 175 HP SBC will beat it due to the weight savings and then I would have the better handling and braking and lighter steering and suspension to hold it up . So IF I had the parts and money to build a Hemi to say even 350 HP to match the performance of the much lighter SBC at say 300 HP that will spin about 3000 rpm higher Id love to do it . I know you said max power but if its NA then the cost to go up from say 350 or more is not that much . Custom pistons are the same price , cams about the same , your likely still running stock rods unless its a ll out race deal so the bottom end is about the same cost as high compression bigger cam version unless were getting into roller cams and stuff . Im doing it for looks and thats it. It will be cool to have and look at and see people go oh its got a hemi must be fast LOL Im not a hemi expert and I do not know were reliability goes out he window but I suspect a 450 Hp or more 392 would be pretty damn reliable unless you rev it past were you should . There were version that made nearly 400 HP stock with a streetable drive it on the highway cam. My plan is to get my truck running with the 331 and I am always looking for a 392 to actually build up to something respectable later . Im not going to be really happy just because it can move and its a hemi . With my luck the stock engine will **** out and ill have $2000 worth of trans adapters and stuff to have made it all work laying there and not a single spare Hemi part to my name and ill be sticking a SB or BB chevy in it anyway that said if I was a zillionaire id love a blown full race Hemi Altered and not care about the cost of the collectable parts . Id have 4 back up engines as well
Well I "think" I have a 1919 Paige cowl and rear half of a roadster and I know were there is a Studebaker straight 8 . Id likely be the only one and it might have more HP than my 331 hemi LOL
Stock 1954 331 Chrysler 2 bbl is 195 hp stock 1954 331 Chrysler 4 bbl is 235 hp Probably pick up a few hp and save a few pounds with exhaust manifolds. STAINLESS STEEL SHORTY HEADER FOR 51-58 CHRYSLER HEMI BLOCK V8 EXHAUST/MANIFOLD | eBay rebuilding the early hemi, MY FAVORITE ENGINE | Page 4 | Grumpys Performance Garage https://www.hotrod.com/how-to/0705sr-chrysler-331-hemi-motor This engine was produced to power a 4500# car and would hardly be a turd in a 2500# Model A. The 1954 Chrysler Hemi with a four-barrel carburetor produced approximately 330–340 lb-ft of torque in stock form. https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/horsepower-vs-torque/?msockid=329ef8eefd276cfd03c0eff5fc396dd9
You’ve been here for weeks defending the honor of early hemi’s day in and out. It’s starting to look like you’ll do anything for them but drive one- there’s no way you’d have time for that outside of this thread.
My avatar has a 392 with a t-10 four speed, 3:20 gears. Used to have 411s, that was silly. It has run to Bonneville several times at plus 80 speeds at over 14 mpg. Running on regular. Have another on the stand. Wonderful engines. Leave that SBC in your car ,keep driving, ,build something else. I'll change my vote again tomorrow. Really nice car BTW.
The Traditional Hot Rod forum is reserved for threads and posts pertaining to period correct hot rods only. Please use this forum for technical threads, build threads, historical threads, and feature threads only. Apparently, you have a problem with the above requirement of this forum. The Hemi dominated NASCAR in the 50's and was the first engine to produce 1 hp per cubic inch in 1954. All prior to 1965. Try comparing a 1965 and prior SBC than using an aftermarket crate engine. "It’s starting to look like you’ll do anything for them but drive one- there’s no way you’d have time for that outside of this thread." I don't understand your above statement except to believe it's some sort of derogatory statement to personally attack me for my beliefs. Good thing we don't post our height, weight, eye color, ***, nationality, or religion. More things to attack a person with a different point of view.
I'll defend him a bit. I qualify for your evaluation; moved to Texas in 2019, switched big valve. big port truck heads onto my '52 331 and built wheel-well dump headers with built-in mufflers when I got here. Haven't driven it in 5 years. don't know why other than turning 76 and past my prime I guess. However I want to argue with the contention that hemis break the bank to build. If not building blower motors with girdles, billed main caps, roller rockers, and such, a warm build only costs in the range of a mildly trick SBC. I just finished building a '54 331 for a older gentleman who wanted it in a .40 Plymouth, both handed down from father, grandfather. I used parts mostly from Hot Heads, had the engine bored, valve job, the usual cleanup machining. New stainless valves, the usual stock style bearings, warm cam grind, pistons, lifters, adjustable push rods, gaskets, etc., Chevy water pump conversion, aluminum 4bbl manifold, chrome Holley carb. I rewelded the front timing cover to clear the pump, built the brackets for AC, power steering, alternator, to save the high cost of aftermarket ones. Reworked store-bought shorty headers to fit Plymouth frame. Bought adaptor to attach a 200R4 ******. Don't recall the total cost but don't recall it giving me chills thinking about it.
Nice post and pics . Looks great My 54 331 has a cast iron timing cover so I'm ***uming the cover you cut to fit the chevy water pump is not off a 331? I ***ume you used a short snout cam then and a later cover you modified? I replaced my pump with a factory type off Amazon for like $150 so I could get it running on a stand. I do not think that intake is available anymore and if it was its going to be $800 or so even used . If or when i find a good aftermarket intake ill be more into my project . U I might try a u fab but made to use a 671 blower carb plate and sheet metal plenum under it . IF I were to start with no Hemi and had to have a rebuilt Hemi that had better compression power id pay the extra money to find and buy a 392 to start with for a short block at least . Correct me if I'm wrong but to bring the compression up with piston's on a 331 there are no lesser expensive cast option so your looing at custom forged stuff that in the $1300 a set range or more ( haven't looked recently ) and stock compression cast stuff that is going to be about 8-1 or less is about $725 with no rings . any new performance cam should have more compression than stock so your back to the $1300 pistons and then the cam will be a short snout so you will need to convert for that and more money and finding parts . regrinding my existng cam is a option but now your looking at adjustable push rods or $$ rocker arms I do not know what you had into the long block on the build you did or what you consider a mildly trick SBC but for the cost of the 331 pistons but i figure the 331 build with say 9.5-1 and new cam is going to be about triple the cost of a decent SBC in the 475 HP range or even better. There is just no cheap way when it comes to these other than hopefully running the stock never messed with one I have and hope its OK after over 80 years and then Ill have $1000 or more getting a trans on it and all that . Ill find out
4 barrel high rise, $650.00 Hot Heads Research & Racing Early Chrysler Hemi Engine Parts They make custom forged pistons but don't know the price. Quality Engineered Components – Parts and Technical ***istance for Chrysler – DeSoto – Dodge – Plymouth
In reference to 1946caddy's post #122. I have a '57 283 in my original '32 Roadster, '39 Ford trans and a Zephyr Columbia. I've had it together since 2006 and attend the LARS and the old Pasadena Roadster reliability runs. One day at the LARS, with my hood open, a very old guy was telling his grandson that Henry Ford knew that eventually people would install SBC engines in his early '30s cars. And to prove it he pointed out the forged flathead V8 motor mounts that position the Chevy engine like they were made to work. I had to turn away because I started to laugh and didn't want to ruin his story. I grew up building SBC engines and at my age that's what I'm comfortable with.
I bought a set of the cheap ebay headers already not sure l'll run them Im going to use them on the run stand however . My 28 PU with a iron head sbc and turbo 350 trans is 2850 pounds with the steel rims curb weight . The SBC I have for another project that is non HAMB weighs in a only 438 pounds , That's a 413" 550 HP with aluminum heads , water pump , intake , has a lighter crank and pistons and will spin up to 7000 RPM if it must . I think I had a carb and distributer on it . ( Not a HAMB engine ) For the sake of argument lets say the stock 331 with the cast intake , timing cover is 740 pounds . and then add in that heavy generator ill run if I keep it all stock . So lets say the engine is 300 pounds more than a SBC I can build for pretty cheap and if it made the same 200 HP. ( no one is building a 200 HP SBC unless it some restoration with a 265 or something ) the calculated ET for a the Hemi in my 28 A at 2o0 hP is about a full half second slower and thats not factoring in the loos of traction to the weight ratio change and traction loss. In the 1/8 mile it would feel worse that is just the weight difference and again no one is building a 200 HPSBC these days and there going to pull for a much higher rpm that will make it feel faster between shift . The hemi in stock trim needs about a extra 25 HP more to run the same ET as a SBC that is lighter and then if you factor in the fact any self respecting SBC build is going to rev much higher that will effect shift points and seat of the pants feel the Hemi will feel like a slug with the same 200 HP over a 200 Hp 283 or similar SBC and again no one running a 200HP SBC any more . Now lets argue that were following HAMB rules to the letter and were not running aluminum heads, water pumps or mini starters on our pre 65 built up SBC . ( so a 327" basic build) The chevy is still going to be about 200 pounds lighter and even a stock 10.5-1 factory cam 327 is going to make much more AND be faster due to the weight savings . Factory 1965 327 specs and this is not even the high compression option like a Vette would have 1962 - 1968 with 4 Barrel Carb (Mid Range Horsepower Model) Max Brake Horsepower = 300 @ 5000 rpm Max Torque = 360 @ 3200 rpm Stroke = 3.25 Bore = 4.001 Compression = 10.5-1 About any one here can build that 300 HP HAMB approved 327 for about $2000 if they shop carefully ( many here can piece one together from spare parts for $500 LOL And that's not even a high performance build really, and runs on pump gas . Change the cam ,port the heads, 2.02 valves and better intake like was available in 65 and your at 350 HP easy and likely 7000 RPM and 200 pounds lighter on pump gas .( barely at 10.5-1) Step out side the Hamb rules slightly and go to a later block that looks about the same and you can be in the 383'- 400" CI range 450HP and well beyond really easy . add aluminum heads water pump and light starter and such and be about 300 pounds less than my stock 331 and near 500 HP . Stroke the small journal 327 to 350 or more and look out and still be in 1965 and earlier land . Yes my PU will absolutely go down the road just fine with a 200 HP, 700+ pound 331 hemi and it will look pretty cool ( more cool if I had a intake ) but the other SBC powered 27 T, Model A and 57Vette home will call it a tuna boat behind it back . Id likely need to spend $10,000 or more on a 331 build to match a 325 HP basic SBC build and get the weight down to be only 175 pounds more . That said Id take a dressed out 392 over a SBC in a street driven hot rod any day if there was no hood .
You think thats bad I have FORD script cast aluminum valve covers on my 350 SBC in my 28 A PU and I get the Ford experts telling me how my 289 ford is so much better than some damn SBC that just ruins a Ford how he appreciates its not a chevy and how it looks so much better . I have Micky Thompson front distributor drive set up for the SBC I may add someday to really screw with peoples heads . My 28 is not really HAMB material due to the suspension. That hemi in your post looks great . the brackets look great . The chrome likely cost more than my last SBC LOL . But yea it looks nice I have a stock 331 Hemi and it runs so its going in the 30 A PU that will be no fenders and likely channeled and im doing it for looks , plan on split wish bones and a 32 grill and maybe a 32 bed or 31 wide bed . Ill keep it mostly pre 65 but Ill likely have disk brakes on the front as Ill be driving it in heavy tarffic and on the interstate and I have it. Ill also be making sure the fire wall fits a BBC in case the hemi takes a dump . I was originally going to have a big block chevy in it with about 700HP out of my old drag boat . The I thought hmmmmm the hemi would look cool and I could go old school on the rest of it and be all HAMB ish
Is your hemi a long-bellhousing or short? My '52 is long and has the cast iron front cover/water pump. The '54 I built for the older gentleman is short-belled and has a steel front cover. They must have made a couple versions? Early 331s also have 'wet' intake manifolds, later ones have the thermostat crossovers like 354 and 392. I bored my '52 1/8" over and used 354 pistons raising compression a bit, $700. Intake from HH is $650 (SBC Performer - $270), adjustable push rods $205, everything else (lifters, gaskets, bearings) are similar cost. "Corvette" style warm cams are similar to Chevys. Machining operations should be identical to any otherV8. My point is, stories of Hemis costing **** compared to another (70 year old!) brand of V8 to build don't jibe with my experience.
Check out these ss custom intake manifolds. Would look great polished. I looked for a tri power setup for a month and could find nothing. Bought the Hot Heads high rise and now they come out with these. https://www.hellsgatehotrods.com/product-category/intake-kits-accessories/full-welded-intakes/
What Rodney King Said I think Y'all been played. There is no false information here. Just the preference of how many dollars to make you happy. As a stupid teen I was thrilled to own a HP Dodge Hemi. The many Chevys that followed were still thrills. Made daredevil driving a pleasure ( never had no race car money ). When it was go time, the SBC kept me glued to the seat. Several county and state regulators were concerned that the SBC was dangerous in my hands. They were right. It had nothing to do with the brand. It was my usage and practices. Large valve covers ( chrome or any color ) with the spark plugs in the middle, Or orange or finned aluminum valve covers,,,,, the fight was with the clock. I used to think I could beat it. Fact I knew I could beat it. If I could afford a Pretty Hemi I would just park it and smile to the public.
51-4 have the big W/P in the timing cover. '55 & up have the small cover. Bolt pattern is different & the big cover covers holes at the bottom. The 51-4 & truck heads have solid fronts, only '54 had wet 4 bl intake. Looks like he used adaptors to do the 392 crossover & W/P (or the Chevy W/P). Cast 8.5:1 are available from Egge, or go forged 10:1. Cam: buy a 354 cam & use the LA timing set, you'll need a spacer on the cam's timing gear or it will lock to the block.
Were are you seeing there SS ? I have almsot ordered the flanges to weld up my own a few times . there not SS
I have a 54 with the short bellhousing mount . It has the wet intake So most after market stuff I'll need to buy or build a cross over that is plumbed into the intake . I have seen no 331 with the cross over on the heads. mine is a stock 2BBL there was a 4bbl available in 54 as well . A cast iron intake from a later engine can be made to work if drill and tap it for a cross over . yes I can buy a single aluminum 4bbl from hot heads $650 but lets be honest here aluminum intakes used for the SBC are a dime a dozen . from $40 on up and the average price for a good used Performer is about $100 I have two of them the shelf . You can buy Chevy cams new from $125 on up the hemi cams new . Hemi pistons are what ever I said above and you have a very limited choice for compression ratios in a cast even 331 if you go to a 354 were if you hurt a cylinder your at the max for the block so your done . Im seeing over $700 for cast low compression pistons. You can buy an entire master rebuild kit for a SBC for $469 with options for a mild cam ( I used to get them for $199 years ago ;( ) Egge machine pistons are $850 for cast low compression that's not sort of the same . If you got to do the rocker arm shafts and such your going to be over a grand for what I'm seeing and you can't adjust them and then your likely to still need adjustable push rods. Valves are more expensive and so on . stamped rocker arms for a SBC are dirt cheap and you wont likely need them any way . if you want roller rockers there still dirt cheap I do not know were your getting gasket sets for about the same cost ? a Felpro gasket set for a SBC with decent head gaskets is $99 on up Hot heads is $243 for there set of Best gaskets . About every thing I see for 331 is about 66% more for the actual parts. you can take this better master rebuild performance kit at $768 with multiple cam options and have about any chevy 350 block (that you can find used about $100) machined for Id guess about $900 these days if you deck it and be at under $1600 for the short block with gaskets to add the heads . That will maybe get you a set of forged Hemi pistons and rings only if you want to not be only 8-1 compression 350 Chevy Street Performance Hot Rod Engine Master Kit (northernautoparts.com) Add a set of cheap aluminum heads about $1000 on up and one of the bigger cam options and your at 450 HP or so for about $2600 plus the rockers water pump and all that which is cheap . If the rods need reconditioning then its more or just buy new **** or eagle rods for a stronger build . Id like to see 450 hp 331 or 354 for under $6000 were you can adjust the valves on rebuilt stock heads. that's ***uming all the parts can be re machined like the crank and rods, heads and such . For less than the cost of 10-1 Hemi pistons you can get an entire SBC 383 stroker kit with a crank shaft . you will need your 5.7 rods out of a 350 or other large journal 327 307 etc. Chevy 383 Stroker Master Kit With Crankshaft (northernautoparts.com) this will require balancing and a 400 flywheel or flex plate thats the base for a basic 400 hp or more engine with a lot of torque . I think this is the kit a guy at work used for his truck rebuild. I'm not ****ping on the Hemi but you better be prepared to spend over grand for piston's if you want much for performance and then at least 50 to 100 percent more for the other stuff and your not likely to find a used intake or other dress up stuff for any thing that's considered cheap. I really wish they would repop some of the 2x4 intakes again for about $650 ish And then you got to get a transmission you want bolted to the Hemi some how .
Technical - 331 Intake Manifold | The H.A.M.B. Here's you solution to your HP quest. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2753023793...295848&gclid=cc06f20dbe581859492c9bc798295848 Too much hp? try this 375-425 hp. Chrysler 331 Hemi - Affordable Excellence: Part II
because nobody ever started a "the glory that is the sbc picture thread" https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-glory-that-is-the-hemi-picture-thread.1121623/
https://www.hotrod.com/how-to/0704sr-hemi-engine-build That HR article is nearly 20 years old and the parts kit was like $1600 then. Do you really think that 8-1 compression 331 is making any were near 425 HP with that cam and that intake and what ever head work was done ??? I do not. That would be like me expecting a 230 HP gain if I changed to that cam intake and ran some bigger valves in my already pretty good 1954 heads . ( THEY RAN 54 HEADS) It should be noted HR did not dyno that motor. I have supposedly about 8-1 now ( likely less) No cam , intake carb and what ever they did is going to take me from 195 hp to 425 hp or even 350 HP If it could i will by that cam today and find that intake . A 200 shot of nitrous would not get me there LOL. I recall Hot Rod doing a article on a locals 11.90 second Ford Galaxy In about 79. Funny thing . I raced that car likely 20 times at Sears Point and it never went below mid 13s and nobody ever saw it go faster . Id be fine with 275 and thats likely doable
https://www.hotrod.com/how-to/hemi-induction-shootout-retro-modern-make-power-354-hemi Same magazine only got about 360 HP with a bigger 354 with 10.8 compression and a roller cam and the same intake. Likely more realistic numbers. Add the weight penalty and a stock 350 HP 327 will likely beat it in the quarter mile especially if weight distribution on the nose hurts rear traction . Id take that hemi in a heart beat . Id likely go a touch less on the compression ratio on pump gas.
I dont know who's car this is . I saved the pic off the internet or maybe from here but this stock looking Hemi looks damn good and right . Cast intake and all sure looks good in that A and might be very well the route I take with mine untill i find a better intake .
I guess I don't know why you're even posting on this thread. You mention a Model A pickup but nothing, if it's stock or ready to accept a V8. With the kind of hp you're talking about and perceived use of said hp, you will need to upgrade ******, rear end, steering and brakes, strengthen the frame, alter the firewall, which will be larger cutout and less leg room if using the Hemi. Everyone of your concerns has been addressed as to the lack of HP with the Hemi. You counter all the suggestions with the cost involved. Reading your comments and references to the "cost" of everything, I had in my mind someone living in a garage and living from a social security check ,month to month. I was almost drawn to tears and looked up your profile to see where you live as to donate a 4-barrel intake. Staring back at me were the words "57 vette", the value according to the internet has a value between $66,000 and $1,750,000. My tears dried up immediately.
I’m not particularly a fan of small block chevy’s, but if you’re suggesting they are not a traditional option you’re deluded. What I do take issue with is the misleading posts you’ve been making, and then moving the goalposts when you’re called out. You can build an SBC for less than the aluminum heads you no less than twice tried to mislead on the costs of. You’ve been working overtime keeping this stupid thread alive for nearly a month for no reason. If I am right that you have not driven or worked on a car in that time, I truly hope it is not because you aren’t physically able; anymore that is a sad and common reality. I find it Ironic that you chose to pontificate on tradition, the HAMB, and playing nice, considering what this place was actually like in its heyday. If you don’t like getting called out for what you post, maybe be more careful posting.
Do not know for sure , I am wondering why so many where using the small Hemi under 400cid around 1964 & later in N -A unless over 10-5-1 compression or adding / spiking the fuel .
You should reread the posts. This started with "Both take a whole bunch of money to get half the HP of a mild SBC."I took exception to this statement as absurd. Stock from the factory 1956/354 Chrysler Hemi was rated at 340-355 hp. The OP claimed he had a 354 Hemi which he was considering installing. A mild sbc is rated between 300-350 hp. You can look up mild sbc hp on the internet for this figure. Not counting this "whole bunch a money." for this statement to be true, the mild built sbc would have to produce between 680-710 hp. to be twice as much. I once again don't get your reference to the aluminum heads. Someone pointed out the weight of the Hemi and I said you can buy aluminum heads. refurling the fact of aluminum heads will reduce the weight. Someone claimed that the cost was $5000 and I looked it up and the cost like $3500. They asked if that was bolt on ready and I looked it up and the price for bolt on heads was like $800 more. To simplify this, someone bought up the weight of the Hemi, and I told them about the availability of the aluminum heads and the price of a basic head and a bolt on head. I don't know where you get this idea where I said that sbc wasn't traditional. To try and rationalize a sbc that was never built at the factory and using modern parts and still doesn't come close to the twice as much hp quote is ridicules. On calling you out. referring to what I do with my time. Not driven or worked on a car and referring to my physical abilities from someone who I have never met and has no knowledge of my abilities or time spent. you deserve to be called out.
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