I have a big nail driven through a short 2x4. I jack up the front end and spin the tires with the nail scribing a line in the center of the tire. Lower the car and measure from line to line both front and back of the tire.
Hey, thanks. You just reminded me that I left the other half of my sandwich on top of the bookshelf so the cat wouldn't get it 3 hours ago when I went to check the mail.
@The Shift Wizard LOL You're welcome, Mr. Wizard. 3 hours? Maybe don't eat it if it's got mayonnaise or Miracle Whip on it.
Yes, but who has one at home in their shop? I ***ume he's setting toe in at home, not at an alignment shop.
I have a tubing setup I built that is two piece and they slide inside each other. I welded a setscrew on the outer piece and simply slide it out until it touches each wheel and lock the setscrew. Then move to the opposite side of the front tires and check it to compare widths front and rear. Simple and fast, and cheap to make.
Which is the correct way to measure 1/8" toe in. When the outside diameter (tread) of the tires has a 1/8" difference between front and back of the tire, the differences measured between the wheel rims or brake backing plates are LESS.
I fully understand old school DIY , but when it comes to something as important as setting up your front end correctly, it's not always best to "cheap-out". Have it done professionally and correctly... and also have all the moving components checked out. Sometimes DIY "good enough" isn't really "good enough".
FWIW I have 2 older Snap On alignment gauges. The type that use levels and magnetically attach to the spindle. The max caster they will measure is 7 degrees. I would guess thats about the max vehicles in the 40's thru 60's would have used.
Well it depends on rake & how you set up front end ,, Frame vertical level with ground. Nose up Nose down I do not know how to explain maybe somebody else can, I can say the more positive caster would change the way & how you would take toe measurement , wants you go from Straight vertical "CL " to positive or negative. When taken a measurement at 0 straight vertical , take measurement @ 3 & 9 , then you move to positive And you then Measure @ 3 & 9 Really not true 1/8 toe . It changes how wheel turns on ground / road. My race car is I think 15 pos caster Wheels flop over , they do not turn .
Toe is set, in a perfect world, dead center of the spindle height on the front and rear of the tire. Caster has no effect on toe setting. The caster center line is basically 90° from the plane the car is sitting on. So if we have a totally flat surface and measures Caster and let's say it's 5° then we take the car on sit it on a 20° plane, as long as both front and rear tires are on the same plane it's still 5°. I still have and use plumb-bob alignment gage I used at work for over 40 hrs, i prefer it over anything including the new computerized system I'm using now. It's like a measuring tape, it really can't go wrong...
@19Eddy30 yes it does. Camber, caster and toe are the same no matter what front end configuration your dealing with. The only thing that might change is the amount of each one to set at. Think of a tire as a wall and that wall is totally level. It doesn't matter what the wall is connected too, it's still level or plumb as they call it in the trade. Now take that same wall that's plumb and make it 2 foot tall, it's still plump, make it 20 foot tall and yes it's still plumb. Camber and caster is the same, doesn't matter how large or small the tire is. About the only thing that changes is toe and it's only because we usually run toe-in or toe-out. As we move the distance further apart on the leading and rear edges of the tire we start increased or decreasing the toe. If we have the toe set straight ahead then the tire diameter doesn't matter. Camber is Camber, caster is caster and toe is toe. Doesn't matter what the tire is connected to or it's diameter. Again the settings may change for different suspension types but the basics never change... ...
How ever you measure the front alignment, be sure the car is in as driven position. That means it has been rolled at least one tire diameter forward with out using the brakes, and has all the weight on the tires it will normally have. This insures the slack has been taken out of all joints and bearings. Take two pieces of thin angle iron, strap one across each front tire, white wall to white wall, each one longer than the tire diameter, you can then measure toe-in off the angle iron. Its a good way to check toe-in if you are by yourself. The tape measure will hook the opposite tires angle iron and you read the tape at the tire you are closest to. Set each one as high as possible on the tire without the tape measure hitting the exhaust or frame. A bungee cord around the back of tire should hold them in place. The angle irons should be level to the road surface. The closer to the center of the tire you can get, the more accurate the measurement will be, but being down below center is usually close enough. If you can't feel a tight spot in dead center of the steering box with the drag link unhooked, the box is not adjusted correctly. While driving with an off center gear box, you will always be adjusted the wheel to keep going straight. The farther off center the steering wheel gets, the more slack the gears have.
This. If your steering arms and tie rod are ahead of the axle you need to check the Ackerman Angle. An imaginary line drawn from the tie rod ball ends thru the kingpin CL should intersect with the center of the rear axle. It is not uncommon for a front steered axle to be incorrect, with a diverging line causing the tire on the outside of a turn to turn more degrees than the inside tire - which is opposite of the desired effect. Also, I have had good luck with either a Fiero or a Volkswagen van steering damper. Nice, compact units.
I don't consider toe in like rocket science, and it's not that big a deal to get it close. I've been setting them this way since the late 60's when a local old time frontend shop owner brought out his jig to check my first straight axle swap in 1968 in my 57 Chevy. Done far too many since then to even count, and anything close to 1/8" works great.
Caster, stance, etc. has zero effect on toe in or camber. As mentioned you want the car sitting on the ground, and it should be rolled back and forth, and stop when you roll it forward. Ideally you already replaced any worn steering parts and there's no play in joints. If you didn't get everything new and tight, then setting it all up is never going to be perfect when done. But the OP's situation is a brand new axle installation, so should be perfect.
Setting alignment isn't hard, what's hard is understanding what your doing and why your doing it. In my many years at a frame and alignment shop we went thru numerous workers who were trained on computerized systems, they could set the alignment but couldn't understand why they were setting it up that way. One finally admitted he had no idea the effect of camber, caster or toe, all he knew was when the computer screen was green he was done... Looking at a tire and realizing what the wear indicates and why is where real knowledge comes in long before you put a gage to it. I have customers still come in today with brand new tires on their car and I will use my hand gage take quick readings and tell them exactly how the old tires were wearing and I get dumb-founded looks and this question "how can you know that?" Because I understand the effects of the different readings and their wear on tires. Or do just the opposite, they come in with the worn tires and I'll do the same from the tire wear pattern. It's not just about saying a car needs -1/2° camber and 1/8" toe in, it's also about understanding why... ...
...and let's not forget the effect of the kingpin inclination angle and the amount of wheel spacing offset from the desired contact patch.
Also Flex in steer arm's & drag link , I have seen & worked on a few that where kits that where insufficient.
Use a 3 corner file and remove the 4 blank spots in your pitman arm, then you can index it where ever you need it.
Almost every tierod or drag link various suppliers sell are as you mentioned, too small OD and flex too much. I buy larger OD tubing and weld bungs to make up my own drag links and tierods. I did use the smaller 1" tierod on my Austin g***er, but that axle only has a 36" tierod, so it doesn't flex with the small tubing.
Do you have a spool in the rear ? If so make sure each tire is the same cir***ference, not jut pressure . And remember every time you increase caster you unintentionally alter camber .( on a solid axle set up . Plus as already posted frame level , proper air in tires or the way youre going to go down the road , recheck caster .
Been away for a few days. Its 1/8 toe total toe in, I dont know who would go to the trouble of setting the toe and having it out. Maybe there would be a weird scenario where that would be a benefit, but I dont know it. But when I said 1/16th per wheel I guess what I really meant it 1/8 total toe in. Annnnd long story short, this is going to be anticlimactic, but I shortened my drag link, centered the box, and redid my mount in a more robust way over the weekend. Its MUCH more stable now. I think the box itself was able to move around a touch when that welded gusset broke. I suspect the broken weld was contributing more than the box being off-center, but one way or another its a night and day difference. I plated the frame, re did my welds and I feel safer now. So blessing in disguise. One of those odd situations, where if the car had been working fine and all of a sudden I had this issue I would have been looking for a broken part. But because it was never aligned and all that to start with I was ***uming it was a setup issue and not a mechanical failure. I do need to re-adjust my toe now after some of the changes, but Im in a much better place than I was last weekend.
I dont necissarily think this is contributing for me, but I might switch out the tie rod bar that comes with the speedway kit. It feels flimsy.the drag link bar I bought is way beefier with 3/4 rod ends Also, reading through a bunch of the comments last week that I missed. I am a HUGE proponent of getting a proper professional alignment. I will scream from the rooftops that for your average cl***ic car, doing a basic front suspension rebuild followed by a real alignment is the best bang for the buck you can get. as far as making your car fun to drive However, almost all of the alignment shops around here really play the libility game. They will only align to year/make/model specs. Some flat out wont take a car older than their computer system has in the database. So if I take my straight axle fairlane in and tell them to align it like its a 1948 Chevy truck or something they are going to politely ask me to leave. I bought one of the Gyraline alignment systems you use with your phone. Which, honestly on the straight axle with heim joint steering, I think had limited effectiveness. But I got it close, then used one of the deals where you bolt two peices of flat steel to your wheels with a couple tape measures before and after to set the toe.
Good luck finding an alignment shop that will even do a straight axle, and those who will often don't know how to do so properly, or don't have the equipment to do so properly. The larger tierod diameter wont affect the issues you were having. What it does do is to eliminate death wobble that is caused by a wimpy tierod flexing when you hit a bump. So if that happens as you begin to drive the car you can then consider a larger tierod diameter. I had a guy bring his g***er to me to try to find out why his steering was mushy one direction, but not the other direction. I had him work the wheel back and forth while I laid under the car looking at the whole steering setup. It didn't take long to see the steering box flexing away from the mounting plate one direction, and pushing tight against it the other way! I removed the single mounting bolt that appeared to be stripped, but the threads were great. The threads on the steering box tab had pulled out! Got a longer grade 8 bolt, and a nylock nut and bolted it through the tab on the box to fix it. It's been working for years since fixed and drives great. Never know sometimes what can create weird issues with steering.
That is eerily similar to what mine was doing. I noticed it laying under because I could see a little daylight. between the bolt going through the frame and the spacer for the steering box where the bolt had actually very slighly bent. Then I looked at my 90* gussets going to the bottom of the frame and saw seperation. Long story short this is on my 66 fairlante (which is the only reason I never posted pictures. Its a cl*** legal g***er for drag n drive but I dont want the HAMB police after me for it being post 64) The engine is motor plated in, and the k member has been removed. I thought I was being cute and put my steering gear where the k member used to be because it looked basically like the frame was already doubled there. What I didnt account for is that metal is just pinch welded to the frame. So my weld didnt technically fail, but that pinch welded sheet metal seperated from the frame under the strain of steering. Now its a new bolt, I plated a section of the frame with 3/16 plate, and then put a big 1/4 peice of steel welded to that and the steering gear mount. But I do like the idea of using an even longer bolt all the way through the gear with a nut on the end just in case. I may do that. Ill save my money on the larger tie rod for now, small sample size but I havent had any hints of death wobble as yet. I dont think I need an alignment shop for this one. My dial indicator showed the caster within like .25 of a degree side to side. So the only thing I really need to set is toe in, which I think I can do with my little DIY tools. Even now without re-adjusting it post repairs its drives straight, the wheel is just about 1/4 turn off from what I have marked as dead center on the steering gear.
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