I'm getting my 60 Falcon g***er to start looking like a real car and was pondering the alignment. The car was raced ages ago and I found it in a barn with a narrowed 60's Chevy G10 van axle and not much else other than the gl*** and 6 inches of brake line on the firewall. The axle actually looks like the narrowing job was structurally ok. Decent sized fishplate on the back side, too. I appreciate the safety concerns and warnings about the narrowed axle, but let's just focus on the alignment questions for now. In hindsight I might coulda put a level on that axle to check side by side, but here we are. I called a local alignment shop about if they could align a 60's G10 van I beam axle for camber if needed, and he asked me if I already had the offset king pin bushings. I didn't know that was a common option, I was surprised he didn't just say no. But he did say they don't bend them(not surprised). Shes' mounted up, with a disc brake kit and steering installed, and we're still a looong way from driving it, yet I pondered. Questions: Is heating/bending not the norm for manipulating camber on an I beam? Does anyone still do it? Anyone in the Wichita -to- KCMO area do it? Edit: after first 3 responses, I have another question: Is the bending done by jacking in the middle? I had always ***umed there would be individual bending done near the end/spring perch area so that each side could be set perfectly. If the jacking is done in the middle, I can see a shop's reluctance to bend against the weld. Pic included because looking at progress makes for the happy. -rick
There’s some big truck places around front street where all that stuff is that will bend them. From seeing friends do it it’s done cold in a big press and it’s a bit of a dance. I’d think you’d have more issues with them wanting to mess with a welded axle but maybe not. there’s for sure places that are doing it in KC wish I had a name for ya
First I wouldn't try bending it because of the weld, don't know how good or bad the weld is and if it was done properly, i.e. proper rod, proper heat penetration etc. Now if it hadn't been welded or we had done the work where I knew how well it was done I'd have no problem bending it but it'd be done cold. I've never heated an axle to set camber, semi's, trailers, hot rods etc, always bend cold. ...
I did beam axle alightment for many years. NEVER and I mean NEVER heat an axle to bend it! You will lose the temper and have a soft axle! Cold bend only. I have replaced axles that would not hold alignment after hot bending, too often. We used what looked like medieval torture chamber bending equipment BUT the alignment held up well. I had a guy bring me a twin I bean Ford truck to align and it had urn marks on both axles. An expensive set of new axles and proper alignment and he was back on the road. Proper alignment is neither cheap or easy. BUT the results are worth it.
Although they mainly drop axles, I would think that Nostalgia Sid's in Guthrie OK could to that. I have heard he's no longer doing axles but his website sure doesn't seem to indicate that. He did a great job on my Dodge axle.
Your life is worth a lot more than what it would cost to replace that axle. An axle from a '41-'47 Ford pickup would be a good choice.
It never occurred to me that setting camber at both wheels would require jacking in the middle. I had ***umed that the perch area would be chained and the ends would be adjusted individually. -rick
I bought a 41' Ford axle for the brakes and spindles and when I got it home there was a bend in the middle of it. My guess is by the look of it someone pulled on it too hard while under the car and bent it. My neighbor who owns a fabricating shop told me he could put it in a giant press they have and bring it back in line for me.
To adjust the camber or caster Would be on the end , Not @ weld . Drop axle , there all drop by heat .. the ones 's that say all time about "" Your Life Worth "" Hhmmm Do you ride in vehicle Do you fly Do you ride a horse Do you ride a bike Do you handle Gas
Caster also affects camber. Set your caster before checking camber. Check that your spindles aren't bent. What do you have and what are you aiming for?
How do you suppose they drop axles without ruining them? It's definitely okay to heat them. The offset bushings are for modern axles. Usually 4x4, though some commercial trucks still use straight axles Also they are bent from the ends. I've seen it done hot and cold. A big rig shop is your best bet to get it done.
Spindles look great, king pins are smooth and have the right amount of snug. I'll shoot for 7degrees on the caster I dont know what the camber is yet and wont until I have her running. I'll put a gauge on her, but still take her to an alignment shop to get precise readings, then find a shop that can adjust if needed- this discussion is purely preparatory. -rick
I’ve made hundreds of big truck axle bends cold. Some single and some compound or multiple bends. FWIW, Kenworth trucks used Aluminum I-beams for a while. Almost impossible to bend, as the spring back was severe. Two degrees of bend to get 1/2 degree of camber. We quit doing them. KW replaced them with steel. The initial alignment spec reading will tell the tech what the camber settings L&R are. Do you have those? If so, was it read with the axle installed with engine in the Falcon? Only then will she or he know where the bend or bends need to be done to correct the camber to the desired spec. The correction needed determines where the hold down clevis goes as well as position of the jack doing the push. Chains are sketchy for hold down unless they’re rated way over the amount of push pressure. We did have a clevis snap once. BOOM! Truck almost jumped off the turntables. The correction bend/s can be anywhere along the beam. Only if the camber is equally negative on both ends will it need to be pushed up in the center with the ends secured to equally increase to +. The spring u-bolts need to be loosened before bending. There is a light truck kit that uses smaller hooks or clevises, as well as smaller rams, to do the bending. The only issue that I would have with yours is the location of the weld, and the pic shows it right in the center. The bends could be done between the weld and the spring pad. Bending between the spring pad and the kingpin eye is possible, just very hard to do without the kit to hook it up. You said it is fishplated on one side. How long is the plate?
I dont have any specs on it yet. I'll get them when the car is drivable, if not actually "finished" (are they ever finished). But finished weight should be close when I measure her. I'ts going to have skinnies on the front, not sure modern or vintage, but should I shoot for camber matching the factory axle (60s G10van) or something more suited to a radial or just stay bias?. There is a fishplate on the other side of the weld. -rick
Your heating the axle to EXACTLY what you want it to do, stretch... not bend. There is a difference, heating/stretching moves the metal. When bending cold the metal is not moved, structure is not changed. All your doing is altering the shape to a minut amount depending on the amount of camber your trying to either gain or lose. And yes you do bend thru the entire length of an axle not just on the ends. Bending just the ends can cause it's own problems. If im running into a bit of negative camber in both sides I will walk the entire axle, in the case of a hot rod, between the batwings etc to move the major camber in order to keep the camber moving evenly on both sides. If I have too much, I will double Clevis the center of the axle and bring both ends down. Here are a couple pics, even though on a big rig the basic hook up is the exact same. In the first Pic a couple things could be happening, but I do know that one side is close and the other side needs adjustment. Either driver side is close and the p***enger side is too low, or the p***enger side is close and driver side is too high. One jack is being used to hold one side, the other jack is used to move the other side. The bottom pic is negating camber in both wheels. Again the amount in each wheel can be "split" by how much pressure you put to each jack or moved evenly by applying even pressure to both jacks.. Same procedures used whether it's a big rig, trailer axle or a hot rod straight axle... ...
@19Eddy30 yep until you have to pick up those big clevis's and put them over the axles and work them around the tie rod and drag links !! I weigh under under 150 pds and I weighed 120 until I was 30 so everything i picked up on the big truck side of the shop just about weighed more than me !! ...
Memory flashback! My office was the same, just not as new. Those hydraulic rams weighed as much or more than the clevis’s did. They stayed on the beam if at all possible. That big clevis over the axle between the rams is the size of the one that snapped under pressure! It looks like Beeline changed the connecting rod setup in the second pic.
Press it then have it magnafluxed to check the integrity of the weld as you don't know how qualified the weldor was that did the work. Consider the total cost of the above 2 labor jobs compared to replacing the axle with a new tube or beam axle that doesn't have an unsightly weld seam...
@hotrodA yes sir !! Those jacks are heavy, 110 ton.. yes 110 ton each. We had a small jack on wheels that rolled up under the main bar. You jacked up the entire bar/jack ***embly until the cross pins became lose. Pull the pins and let the entire bar/jack system down then work the clevis's off of the axle by hand. Then roll it out of the way, every once in a while you'd hit something and the roller would stop and 2 big Jack's would hit the ground, grunt, pick them up and put them back on.. I don't miss those days, haven't had to mess with them for the last 2 years and don't ever plan on it again. I love knowing how to do stuff and this is no different but it's one of those things now that I know it's enough for me !! Don't need the practice anymore !! ..
Yep, 100T weighed at least that. That was a heavy son-of-a gun when you wear kneeling down in that low pit. I see that you have a piece of plate on the floor. It was a must to have, to roll the cart/air jack on It also was a necessity to keep the concrete from getting pitted from the inevitable drops from the beam. Then the cart wouldn’t roll and off came the jacks. @patsurf The clevis fractured at the eye, the force was pulling it under tension. That 100T or the pump was maxed out. That’s why we got out of the pit when doing bends (supposedly)
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