To LS or Not to LS

Came across this ’59 Pontiac Safari wagon over on BaT and thought it was worth sharing here.


Such a rare Canadian car, cl***y looking but not overdone. Built for touring with the LS, power steering and power brakes. You don’t see many of these that survived the wreckers.


I’m curious what you guys think about the details—I love the take on an original color but with the contrasting roof and wheels. Also wondering if anyone knows much about how these Safaris were optioned back then… clearly not with a 5.3L LS! I know there are purists that won’t like that, but if you were building a car to road trip in, would you sacrifice purity for reliability and go for an LS? Would you rather power steering and power brakes than an all original stamp of approval?




Always liked these late ‘50s wagons...unbelievable body lines and so much character!

 

Power steering and brakes were more common on the more expensive cars, you'd expect those options to have been ordered on a typical Buick, but not a typical Pontiac.

Putting the modern belly ****on motor in a car like that is a sensible thing to do, seems that a lot more folks these days know how to deal with modern drivetrains, than with the old ones. Sure takes it "off topic" on the HAMB, though.

 

The wagon looks pretty good, for now. Those little bubbles under the paint on the doors are rust holes under filler that are about to get much worse. I suspect that the doors are not the only place filler was used to cover rust. In another year, that car probably won't look that pretty. To correctly repair the amount of rust I suspect may be hiding under that paint won't be cheap.
If you don't mind brown rust spots showing up on your shiny blue paint, you may have a few years before it gets really bad looking.
The car looks like it might be a nice cruiser, other then the rust. The LS motor is the GM equivalent to the 283 from the late 50s, seems to be the go to motor for a lot of people. They make good power, are plentiful, and parts will be available for a long time. Many have the over drive transmissions which makes driving on the highways more fuel efficient. I have nothing against the modern drive trains in the old cars. They make great cruisers. The purest are always unhappy, not my problem.

 

With rebuild costs near $2000 for machine shop alone, a low mileage LS motor and transmission are $500. For under $1k you can go twin turbos and have reliable tire shredding power

Why not go LS or LT these days?

All vehicles with an LS or LT have an overdrive trans, be it 4,6,8, or 10 speed automatic, or 5 and 6 speed manuals

The 4.8 is 292 cubes 5.3 is 325 cubic inches, 5.7 is 348 cubes, 6.0 is 366 and the 6.2 is 377

However power density is about double if not triple the original stock Gen 1 SBC because of the recardo combustion chamber

Just like the original small block was swapped into cars 70 years ago when it came out. The Gen 3/4/5 small block are being swapped in and getting 20mpg

 

lmao...I ended up with $15k in my Cheep (6.0 single turbo that runs 10s). They're kind of cheap to build, but not that cheap.

 

I'd drive that!

 

Yessir it is… I’m looking down the road and debating if I would go the LS route again so was looking for in biased feedback from “those in the know”. It has been super nice to drive, but as I’m sure many of you know, it’s not for everyone

 

LS ,
carb it
Intake, MSD box or other .
Spend more $$ as you go .

 

No. But that's just my option, it's your car.

 

Just drive it and enjoy it.

 

If power/performance are any consideration, the SBC can and will make the same if not more power than the LS when modified to the same specs. If you just want to plop a stock engine in your car from the local pull-a-part, the LS is the way to go. Way more power and efficiency than any SBC.

 

If you only drive it to car shows, restore it.
If you plan to take it on road trips, DD, or use it to carry stuff, LS with OD trans, AC, PS, modern disc brakes.
Cost wise, it's probably the same.

 

My friend has a ‘57 Chevy with a 4.8 LS with stock fuel injection and a turbo 400. It has manual steering and brakes.

My ‘54 Country Squire has a 292 Yblock and Holley carb, AOD trans, power steering and power brakes.

My car is much nicer to drive, has been much more reliable and I’m not ashamed to open the hood at car shows.

I have nothing against LS swaps but it’s not the answer for everything.

 

I suppose the LS would be ok if you could keep the hood down but it’s one fugly engine.

 

I don't think we will miss him.......

 

i would nt go LS

but that me , old school all the way , imo

 

if I wanted fuel injection, coil on plug ignition, a modern electronically shifted auto trans and power everything inside the car I wouldn't look for a car from 1959. But hey that's just my opinion and clearly I'm in a minority there with how common LS swaps are nowadays

 

I used to be all over LS swaps in whatever. In my old age, I have come to agree with Matt Martin on the subject.

https://www.nailheadbuick.com/post/the-ls-swap-fad-and-styling-continuity

I will maintain that almost any engine can be reliable so long as it is maintained properly. The engine in my avatar starts right up, even at -3°F. The only "upgrades" I have done are 12V conversion and a pertronix.

 

Here's a "micro" ls bouncing off the rev limiter....
https://youtube.com/shorts/SezQWt95274?is=B0b7aYJCZSU85yPR

 

I love how the op indicated the LS is more reliable than a vintage engine. Like the original '59 Pontiac 389 couldn't be trusted.

 

I'll just leave this here since the OP has left the building it would appear.

 

It depends on what your goal is.

The stroked 400 (440) in my 71 Lemans got horrifying mileage (9 mpg) and not enough power to warrant the fuel cost - especially here where fuel is $7.50/gallon. I found a 2019 L84 crate motor (5.3 direct injection) and installed it with a TKO. Excellent power, good mileage but added complexity/much less support vs. a Gen 3/4 LS.

Were I to do this again I would suffer a 10% degradation in mileage and run a LS3 crate like another car I had. Superb power and better reliability. I would have kept the M22Z also, just for that Rockcrusher whine.

 

Just say NO to the thought of an LS swap.

I walk right past anything that has an LS at a cruise night, car show, or swap meet car corral.

 

yup, whether or not to do an LS swap should depend entirely on whether you're doing it to make your car nice to drive, or to impress other people.

 

LS with a full hood!

 

Here is the LS I am doing for the Fiat Build. The intake is a Victor Jr. 4150 and will be purchased with the injector bungs in the event I decide to go twin turbo and EFI at some point.

they dont have to remain fugly with plastic intakes and coils hanging out on top the motor.

once stripped and dressed properly, its hard to tell what it is.

 

Our local wrecking yard recently advertised a supercharged LS7 with TKO 6 speed with harness for under 10k. You absolutely cannot beat that. Keep the hood closed, your mouth shut and hold the F on.

 

Billy, on that listing - did they include the PCM too?

Wrecking yards have a really ****ty habit of selling all but the PCM, they do that separately.