Technical 3sp trans and a over drive .. whassit ?

Once General Motors discontinued this Muncie transmission, a Saginaw three speed overdrive transmission with syncro low was available in certain Chevrolet models from 1966-71. You'll see a lot more of this early style than you will them, though.

 

@Crazy Steve A SIX SPEED !?!?! That’s a whole other extra grear then the T5 I don’t really wanna use

 

Holy **** !!! I got @squirrel to make a dodge joke !!!!

 

This key at the top of the pic is connected to the solenoid. Locks and unlocks the blocking ring.

here’s the OD planetary
You see the sun gear connected to a shift fork just in front the planetary. On the mounting base side. The spring loaded Rod/fork is what the dash cable works

the rod in the gloved hand is the mechanical reverse safety. Pushes the sun gear out of that blocking ring
The freewheel hub is that bearing behind the planetary.

 

There was a magazine article (Hot Rod?) on how to adapt the Saginaw three speed overdrive unit to a Saginaw four speed.

 

Yes, it really wasn't too complicated; the main problem is finding a Saginaw overdrive transmission in the first place.

 

I know a guy who put an R-11 behind a top loader. Pretty complicated machine work, and obsolete now with the stronger 5 speeds available.

The setup for us Thunderbird hot rodders was to stick the Dana rear end from a 6 cylinder 3sp o/d wagon in. 4.27 rear gears, and just needed lowering blocks to compensate for the change in the spring perches. Gave a 2.9 effective ratio.

Put a 4: 11 or so behind that 6, hook everything up as factory, it’ll be a great combo. Running flat ground at 60-70, hit a hill and either downshift to 2 over, or go to wot and kick down to 3rd direct.

Steve’s right, in a car you have no real need for all the split shifting. I have used that with Gear Vendors on long hills in motorhomes though.

 

I got saginaw OD. Built it from pieces. The main case and OD parts came from an old trans builder. I used regular Saginaw 3 speed for the trans guts.
Now I have a nice Saginaw 4 speed. Been thinking about swapping o er the OD parts.

 

I seem to recall that they would shift into OD when you let off the gas, after the governor was engaged (which happens around 35 mph). So...start in low, accelerate, shift to second, accelerate, shift to third, accelerate, let off the throttle, it goes into OD. But it's been a while since I had one working. I need to get working on the Edsel and see if I can get it working again, and remind myself how it's supposed to function.

The Hudson with it's factory 4.56 gears was neat...if you read the owners manual, it suggested that you could just leave it in 2nd gear in traffic. Start out in 2, lazily get up to speed, let off the gas it shifts into OD, you're going about 35-40 now, keeping up with traffic in 2 OD. Next traffic light is red, come up to a stop, repeat the process when the light turns green. Never touch the shifter. I tried it, worked pretty well.

 

A few corrections...

The components consist of the OD gears, the manual lock-out cable, the governor, the solenoid relay, the solenoid, and the kickdown switch.

Sequence of operation.

The cable will manually lock out the OD when pulled out. Pushed in, the OD is mechanically enabled.

The governor contacts will power up the relay (supplying power to the solenoid to engage OD) once your speed exceeds about 27 MPH. This circuit goes through the kickdown switch on the normally closed contacts. The OD can't shift into OD until the transmission is 'unloaded', done by simply lifting briefly off the gas removing power. Once your speed drops below about 22 MPH while coasting, the governor contacts open removing solenoid power and the OD shifts out of OD. The solenoid internally contains two sets of contacts, a NC set and a NO set. When the solenoid pulls in, the NC set opens and removes power to the 'pull-in' coil, switching to a 'holding' coil (which draws less current) to keep it engaged. The other set closes to ground, with the other end connected to the points side of the coil through the kickdown switch NO contacts. DO NOT try to pull the OD cable out for manual lockout while moving in this mode, it WILL damage the OD unit. ONLY pull the cable out when fully stopped or below 20 MPH with the transmission loaded.

Kickdown or 'p***ing gear'. The kickdown switch contains NC and NO sets of contacts and is generally located under the gas pedal, although occasionally will be found activated by the throttle linkage rather than the pedal. When the gas pedal is fully depressed, the NC contacts open and remove power from the solenoid, regardless of vehicle speed. At the same time, the circuit between the coil and the NO contacts (now closed) operates, shorting the points directly to ground, preventing the plugs from firing for about 1/2 revolution and unloading the transmission so it can shift out of OD. As soon as the shift is completed, the solenoid contact opens, restoring power to the points (this is the 'hesitation' noted when doing this). You can manually lock out the OD as long as you keep the transmission loaded (accelerating), otherwise once you release the gas pedal it will automatically shift back into OD.

Some of the operation can be finessed a bit once you become familiar with your particular vehicle, as governor speeds can vary by rear axle ratio and tire size, as well as using kickdown to disengage OD. While the OEMs used a 'special' relay, a standard Bosch 40A rated one can be used with proper wiring changes. You will however need the factory-style kickdown switch as I've never seen an easily-adaptable subs***ute.

 

I love smart people

 

Steve has it exactly right, and written much better that I could have.

 

I had a ‘56 Chevy sedan delivery back in the ‘70s, 6 cyl, 3 spd/OD from the factory. I drove it everywhere for 10 years and never had a problem. I knew that those old 3 speeds were sorta fragile so I drove it with respect. With the O/D handle in it acts like a synchro 1st. I liked it so much that when I built my ‘31 Tudor in 2008-9 I put one in it behind the 350. I had to build my own floor shift parts because they were scarce and pricey. When I sold it the new owner broke it and put a TH350 in its place. I liked the old 3 spd with the Hurst shifter and the OD, it felt hot roddy and was great on the freeway.
I would grab it while it’s available. They come up for sale fairly often, sometimes real cheap.

 

And, I hear they are quite difficult to repair when you break one.

 

Just asking
If the R10-11
Light duty & kind of complex to hook up to function
What the average value.

Would it be easer & stronger
To couple a G-V to what ever
even if have to make own adapter ?

 

Vintage auto garage sells all the relays switches and wire harnesses for the Borg Warner overdrives.

I have an R11 out of a 41 Lincoln Zepher in my 29 roadster, at 60 mph the engine is turning 1825 rpms.
I’ve been to 90 mph but with no top it’s pretty much a blur.

I’ve also been able to shift into 1st od.
It is pretty kool but I really don’t use it unless I’m on the interstate. Not having engine braking around town suks.

 

GVs are over 2k
I’ve paid $10-$250 for a trans with an r10 and have 2 that was free.
Light duty is fine behind cruisers. Complicated? Simple enough I’ve put em together from pieces a and leftovers. About to install one in a c10 and setting up my merc with one. Plans are to operate with just a toggle switch.

I’ve got a Doug Nash OD in my bus operating off a 2 speed rear end switch now.

 

as for the strength of the R10....you do have to be careful if it's in a heavier car, or you have a torquey motor.



This was in my Edsel 10 years ago, it crunched the needle bearings in the OD planetary. I think I was engaging OD a bit too early...in lower gears....that puts a lot of torque through the planetary, and is not good for it.

I had a parts Chevy transmission at the time with the R10, so I just swapped in the parts I needed. But I learned a lesson, treat it with care.

 

When it comes to durability, R10's and R11's are quite different animals.

 

Interchangeability of internals is why I kept the Stude ones.
And bought the locked up one from my neighbor for $10. Had the 12v solenoid I needed

 

The no engine braking is only below the OD cut in speed. Once you are in OD (pawl in and sun gear locked to the case) you do have engine braking. However, it will go away below about 28 mph when the OD (sun gear) is released. It's just like most automatics of the 50's - 80's. When they downshift to low when coming to a stop, you have no engine braking. The downshift point is just at a lower speed, maybe about 5 - 7 mph.

 

That R-10 will live fine behind a 6, even mildly hopped up. Ford and many others sold millions of them, most under 300 cid engines.

I opened up a T-85 R-11 o/d and changed the first gear slider when I was 17. Took the o/d apart, checked it, and put it all back together. Drove it for years. First transmission I ever opened up. It’s not rocket science if you follow the manual.

Ontario doesn’t look to have a lot of elevation change, get the rear gears close to the 3.9 it’ll be a great cruiser.

 

The pin your hand is on is used to manually move the sun gear into the planet carrier when you shift into reverse. It contacts the reverse shift mechanism. If you have the OD cable pushed in, you wouldn't have any reverse unless you lock up the planetary gears. When you shift out of reverse the sun gear moves back to where it was (when OD cable is pushed in).

 

Yeah, it's not too difficult to get the overdrives apart, if you know there's a retaining ring under the core plug! Or so it was on my Ford unit.

 

Back in the 70's as a 16 year old I had a 55 ford, three on the tree with o/d. The main thing that dad always told was to pull the cable out when I park or go into reverse.

 

Sorry, that is not correct. With OD enabled (cable pushed in), the overrunning clutch (AKA 'freewheeling') operates at all times and all speeds, whether OD is engaged or not. While there is a small amount of 'drag' due to frictional losses in the trans, in reading the BW OD manual they tell you that if you want engine braking you must manually lock out the OD by pulling the OD cable out. This manually locks the sun gear and pinion cage together preventing the sun gear from rotating inside the cage. This is also done automatically when shifting into reverse as the overrunning clutch can't transmit reverse rotation. Handy to know when parking.

If you end up with three speeds of neutral when the OD is enabled, the overrunning clutch will be the problem. And you can run out of brakes coming down a long grade in OD... AMHIK...

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/TechData/BWOverdriveManual.pdf

 

Only below 28 mph do you have freewheeling

 

I’ll answer that question when I get one installed

 

@VANDENPLAS
Length for the Muncie OD I have is 21 3/4

 

Again, that is not correct. Read the manual in the link above, it clearly explains the operation. Virtually all R10/11 ODs operate the same way.

The purpose of the overrunning clutch is to act as a secondary 'clutch'. Gear sets don't like being shifted while under load, whether it's acceleration or deceleration. This allows 'automatic' shifting operation of the OD by simply lifting off the throttle, which then unloads the OD gears by disconnecting the trans output from the remainder of the driveline until power is reapplied.

This lack of engine braking and the safety concern it raised was a major factor in them being discontinued.