Hot Rods MEL engine questions

I have a couple of questions about the MEL engine family. I understand the MEL block is not the same as the Ford "Y" block. But I read somewhere that the Ford "FE" series IS a MEL block. Is that true? And if anyone would be so kind, could someone share some key dimensions of a 1950's era MEL engine block maybe length, or head dimensions or even valve cover dimensions?

 

I don't believe that the FE and MEL are anything alike.

 

I'm thinking the MEL is a Y configuration but shares nothing with either family. topside front fuel pump, power steering driven off the crank, two bolt valve covers... big and damn heavy but tons of torque. might use the same distributor cap.....

 

FE is not a Lincoln engine...the MEL is.

Did you ever look at an MEL block? The cylinder head deck surfaces are NOT at 90 degree angle to each other... which is quite different from any other Ford engine (although the same as the Chevy Mark I big block 348-409).



I think there is some similarity between the MEL and FE bellhousing bolt circles, but that's about the only thing in common.

 

The MEL, Ford Super Duty of the late fifties through the sixties, as well as the 348 and 409 and a number of European engines had what is called a Heron combustion system. They featured a flat bottom cylinder head and a combustion chamber in the top of the piston. The top deck of the cylinder block was not machines perpendicular to the cylinder bores .

 

The MEL engines had the same bell housing pattern as FE engines from 1958-62. Then, who knows why, the pattern was changed to one unique to that style engine in '63.

 

Just to throw some fuel onto old dying embers of an obsolete platform...The Grist Brothers Willys was a record holder with unblown but stroked Ford MEL power.

 

Nearly everything about an MEL is unique to that engine family including cam cores which can be hard to come by but regrinding a factory core is no problem.

 

For one brief shining moment, the MEL powered the 1959 NHRA Nationals Top Eliminator.


jack vines

 

In 1958 Ford released 3 brand new V8 engine designs into the wild. Each design was specific for it's intended use, and each was very different from the other, with very few if any inter-changeable parts.

The smallest engine was the FE - so stop calling it a "Big Block". FE stands for "Ford - Edsel" and was intended for use in smaller and midsized cars in Ford and Edsel's lineup. This only lasted for a few years before Mercury's started getting FE's in the early 60's, and pickups a few years later. FE's are a "Y-block" style design in such that the block casting extends below the center line of the crank. This adds additional rigidity to the crankcase and provides additional support for the main bearing caps. The FE engine came in a variety of displacements ranging from 332 to 428 cubic inches, including the 332, 352, 360, 390, 406, 410, 427, and 428. Bore spacing is 4.630 inches and deck height is 10.170 in. The FE has a unique design where the valve covers are mounted to both the cylinder head and intake manifold. This design feature is unusual in American made V8's. The FE remained in production through the 1976 model year and a few more years after that in industrial applications. The FT, released into production in 1961, was a derivative of the FE, intended for Medium duty truck use.



The next larger engine was the MEL. MEL stands for Mercury, Edsel, Lincoln. Dimensionally the MEL is considered a big block, with a 4.900 inch bore spacing and 10.432 in deck height. The MEL came in displacements ranging from 383 to 462 cubic inches, including the 383, 410, 430, and 462. The MEL was intended for use in large, heavy, luxury cars and as such was designed to have a wide, fat torque curve. The MEL is also a "Y-block" design, but has a flat cylinder head with no combustion chamber. The cylinder head is mounted at a 10 deg angle to the cylinder bore axis and the wedge that is formed between the piston and the cylinder head is the combustion chamber. Since the crown of the piston defines the combustion chamber, FoMoCo liked to tweak power outputs by playing with the piston shape, and nearly every model year has a different piston. The 1958 Mercury 430 Super Marauder was the first 400 hp rated engine ever put into production by an American manufacturer not named Duesenberg. The 430 also found its way into the Thunderbird.



Finally, there was the Ford Super Duty V8. This is the largest displacement V8 Ford ever m*** produced (excluding the GAA, a WWII tank engine). Bore spacing was 5.25 inches and deck height was 11.25 in. The engine came in 401, 477, and 534 cubic inch displacements. The engine can only be found in medium and heavy duty Ford trucks, typically 700 series and larger. The Super Duty shares the MEL's combustion chamber design, and also has a "Y-block" style crankcase. Like the FE, it also stayed in production through the late 70's. It was designed to haul 40,000 lbs around all day, at 3400 rpms, and go 100,000 miles between overhauls.

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

"big" and "small" are relative, eh? The Ford small blocks, such as the 292 and 289, use a 4.38" bore spacing. That means the FE is really a "medium block"...not a small block, not a big block.

 

@Winston Smith I've messed with them some, I can get some dimensions in a day or so. My beastie:

 

Thanks @FrozenMerc , could you expand on the FT engines? I take it you mean the 330/361/391 series? Mainly I was wondering what p***enger style bell housing would fit a 391?

 

My 62 Lincoln Continental covertible had a big ol' MEL engine, a 430. It was cool to cruise around in or go to a drive in. Gas was 25 cents a gallon back then. The downfall of my Tank was the crankshaft driven power steering pump, it constantly leaked. Such a pain to take off that I gave up on it and let it leak. The Tank was given to me as partial payment for a job rebuilding a 58 Mercedes 190 SL engine. When the gas crisis in 1974 hit you couldn't give away these gas hogs. Sent it to Cherry Auto Wrecking for $100. Incidentally the kids grandpa also gave me a 66 Connie, not a converible. Sent it to Cherry Auto Wrecking for $100 too. Would love to have the Tank back. Just hang a belt driven PS pump on it and go.

 

FT was a "modified" FE designed for use in Medium duty truck applications. Ford made changes such as subs***uting in forged crankshafts with a larger snout that could handle additional accessories such as air compressors and hydraulic pumps. They also came with sodium cooled exhaust valves, and truck specific exhaust and intake manifolds with different heat risers. The front cover was also different, and typically included a forward motor mount. The FT used the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the FE, but they can be found with a hogshead style bellhousing adaptor to mount an SAE style transmission that also included mid-motor mounts.

The 359/361 and 389/391 had the same bore and stroke as their FE 360 and 390 siblings. The odd ball was the 330 FT - which had a silly small 3.875" bore, even though all FT's have a high degree of variability since they were used across many different ch***is sizes and applications.

 

I don't know if the 62 had it, but the 59 I worked on 45 years ago at the junkyard had hydraulic windshield wipers, also powered by that crank driven steering pump. I got to replace the cam in the car, what a pain that was...yes, the steering pump had to come off the crank, to get to the cam.

 

The 2.8L Cologne V6 also had the valve covers mount to both the intake manifold and the cylinder head. And that evolved from a SAAB V4.

 

As much as I love SAABs; drove them for forty years, they bought the V4 from Ford Germany. IIRC, it was used in a small car called Taurus; never sold here in the US. It also was used in industrial applications. The weak point was the balance shaft bearings.

jack vimes

 

One other difference in the FT was the distributor. Most of the trucks used one with a built-in governor, but it also used a larger 5/16" oil pump drive and had a larger shaft. A bushing in the block is needed to shrink the pilot hole for the smaller FE shaft, or a modified distributor with the larger FT shaft. Either of these are available from various FE spe******ts.

 

Thanks for all the replies and info, y'all.

 

I believe the German Ford car that had the V4 was called a Taunus, not a Taurus.

 

I put a 430 Mel in my 1955 ford in 1963! Bones

 

Bones how have you been? Long time, I was just at the meltdowns making noise.

 

Hey, James, Wow! I’m jealous! We were thinking about going to the Meltdown, but family issues have gotten in the way! We are taking care of my mother, at a 102, that’s a big job! We are spending a short week end gotta way as we speak, in your fair state! We are at Osage Beach, for a couple of days! Oh, wait you’re from Kansas aren’t you?
How did your Chevy do , at Meltdown? Beat any Fords? lol
I think of our times together on the drag strip and the parades around the hotels, and smile!
Weren’t you building a hot FE a while back? How’s that going?

Hope you and yours are doing well!




Bones

 

I'm in central Missouri. Car ran great and I did find a small detail I had miss 8 year ago when I was waking this car up.
Got my *** handed to me by @powrshftr my first run of the weekend.
102 is quite the milestone to reach I pray she still has some quality of life.
The FE project is still going but at a slow rate. Nathan's life has been busy and a young family takes up a lot of his spare time.

 

Thanks, yeah, she still has a good life, not a great life. She still lives in her own home, we have care takers. But it is still a lot of worry!
Care to share the little “ detail”? Maybe?




Bones

 

The second picture shows a vent valve lever locking out the secondary's on the front carburetor.

 

Wow! So you been doing all the winning on six barrels , instead of eight barrels? I had the same , or close to the same thing happen on my 430/55 Ford. I “ rebuilt “ an Autolite four barrel carb and was really disappointed in the 430s performance. So I bought one of those mechanical linkage set ups from JC Whitney and put on there, no change, so I thought that’s all there was. Well weeks later I came around a corner and stomped the gas and for the first time since I had the 430, the four barrel actually open and away I went! The front of that 55 lifted and I was gone! I can still remember the feeling of that power , today, just like if it was yesterday! lol




Bones

 

Funny thing was I pulled this car off the track 8 years ago because it really wasn't very safe for all the rust it had and my last outing I managed to run a 11.33 at 117 mph. Well 11.50 or quicker one needs a roll bar. So I did all the rust repair and some frame bracing and a roll bar. The car ended up 20 lbs lighter and the best time I could get was a 11.54. I have been a little confused as to what was going on but couldn't quite put my finger on it.
This little missed detail happened when I got this car running again I had to replace the accelerator pumps and just missed this on the front carburetor. Going to be fun to get back to a track with better weather.
Sorry to muddy up this MEL thread but at least I'm taking about a engine with the combination chamber in the block.