Shoud I do this with air bags?

I just bought this truck. I've been under it for a few days now, and I have some decisions to make. I could use some hambfluence.

The facts:
1. Rear springs are shot, shackles need rebuilding.
2. The shocks are too long and are bottomed out. They are holding the truck from hitting the ground. Rides like a buckboard.
3. 2" blocks between springs and rearend.
4. I like the ride hieght.
5. The bed will be comming off anyway, for ease of work.
6. Not building a show truck, just somthing to romp around in somewhat dependably and try my hand at chopping a top (the subject of a future post, I'm sure).
7. Front is ok.

The options:
1. New springs, shocks, shackles. (Too high and stiff I think).
2. Rebuild shackles, new shocks and cob in some air bags. Moderate fabrication, (ok with me).
3. Rebuild springs & shackles, new shocks, cut and stack the frame just behind the cab. (just a thought) ?
3.More extreme fabrication, but not sure what my options are here, (4 bar with bags?) any other ideas?

question - What are the issues with welding brackets on a rearend housing fully ***embled?

I'm curious what you guys will say. Thanks

 

It all depends on you budget, and fab skills. If you aren't a good enough welder to place your life in your hands, then don't do it. If you do bags, you will have to build or buy some sort of 4 bar or other type of locating system. If you use the main leaf as your locator, you will still need to repair the shackles. Maybe you should look into a spring conversion that will have a flatter spring to help get it lower rather than rebuild the originals and have them dearched. The biggest issue that I have with bags is finding a good place for the tank, compressor, solonoids, etc. Without a trunk to hide it, it is there for all the world to see and mess with when you are parked. Welding on a complete rearend is ok as long as you don't get it real hot. Weld intermitantly and you will be ok.

 

I can fab ok. Budget $500 -$1000. Biggest problem I have with the 4 bar is I dont want to buy it cause I can fab it cheaper, but I dont want to experiment with geometry that has already been worked out. I havnt come across any plans yet.

I was thinking no tank and compressor. Just fill em and forget em. Would that work?

Can you tell me a bit more about "a spring conversion" ? I have been searching the www for 2 days and havnt seen anything I felt comfortable in just buying.

Thanks

 

Personally, I wouldn't do it. I suppose you could just run schraeder valves, but if you're not interested in the adjustablility, it might be better just to track down some new leaf springs. Since you don't mind the fab work, you could probably find some in a yard fairly cheap.

Another option if you do want bags and you're not trying to put the rear on the ground would be to go air-over leaf. You could make a bridge to mount the bags and relocate your shocks. The air-over leaf setup would be nice if you're haulin' parts and such too.

Just my dos centavos...good luck.

Bryan

 

If you want to do a little fab then you might consider getting some
S-10 mono-leaf springs from AIM out of Arizona.Last I checked they were around $89 for the pair.I know they will provide an S-10 with roughly 4" of drop and would be easy to adapt to your truck.Checkout a Truckin' mag they advertise in there.If you don't want to fab. then call up Posie Spring co. they make drop springs that will go in to your stock shackels and hangers,I think that they offer a 3" drop over stock but they run around if I remember right $350.Lastly you could try CPP(cl***ic performance parts) they are located in the L.A. area and advertise in Cl***ic Truckin' they sell complete rear leaf spring setups for your truck that comes with new hanger's,shackles,mono-leafs(4"drop),and shocks.Minor welding and bolt on.

 

I have the stock springs on my '48 Cad convert together with air bags. The springs are whupped and when the car was originally built I decided that the leaf springs would be used only to act as locaters. Adding the bags was fairly easy. However, don't do what I did and forget to take into account that some type of anti-wrap system needs to be incorporated as the old springs are no longer providing that service. What that means is that everytime you step on the gas, the pinion is going to wrap up like crazy. Mine got so bad the pinion actually hit the floorboard!!! Yikes!!!
I solved that problem by adding a sort of traction bar to the front of the leaf spring pack. The wrapping stopped. If you have your present springs rebuilt, any competent shop can build a spring that is basically flat but has the needed stiffness to prevent wrap. By adding the airsprings, you can change the ride hight as you desire without altering the ride characteristics too dramatically. All in all, a fairly easy job.

Just my 2 cents worth.

John, aka "oldandkrusty"

 

Thanks all. Its great to have you all to help me sort out the options.
I think I am going to do what Oldandkrusty did. Its the simplest and cheapest with a min of fabrication. I dont want to take the time right now to do a major modification when I am not exactly sure what I want to end up with. Its all temporary anyway. I have big plans down the road.

Thanks for all the suppliers listed. That really helps. Parts are parts but you have to know where to get them.

Do you think bags with a 1500 lb capacity each is enough for a while? I wont be hauling anything heavy.

Oldandkrusty, do you have any pictures?

Thanks again everybody.

 

If you don't mind spending the money an easy way to do this would be a parallel leaf kit from one of the rod suppliers. They come with springs brackets shackels shocks and hardware. All new stuff,clean,easy,but not too cheap. Might be around $500.

 

all good advice above, except for buying ANYTHING from AIM. i have'nt met a person yet who has had a good thing to say about that company and i've heard LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of bad stuff, not to mention my own experience with them. one word of warning if you do buy from them. make sure you know what your shipping price is gonna be before you give them any green.

i've got alot to say about baggin it but i have to get ready for work. i'll try to find this again alate tonight and tell you what i can. i've done a bazillion air bag systems on lots of different stuff. i can sell you a kit pretty reasonable too but i don't care about selling you a kit as much as giving you good information so you can dicide if bags are the way you even want to go. i like em alot but if you just want it low and to go it might not be the thing for you. off the top of my head i could get you a complete system (minus shocks, bag brackets and a 4 link) for $1200. thats at least $300 below retail.
BTW, the 4 link is not as complicated as you are probably thinking (geometry wise at least). i'll check back tonight if you still need advice and info.

 

That would give you 3000 lb, minus the weight of the rear of the vehicle(probably less than 1000). As long as you don't haul anything over a ton, you should be alright.

 

Yes, please, tell me more.
I would rather buy from a Hamber than someone else, if you have what I need.

 

I say just 2 link it with a cross bar, Bag over axle set up or if you don't wanna take up that much room you could go a bag behind axle. If your not interested in hitting switches just get a small tank like a 3 gal or you could make your own the size ya want out of some schedule 80 pipe and caps add a set of old school push****ons and a compressor and you'd be good to go. Or you could rebuild your shackles and just add some air shocks to what you currently have to keep it from banging the frame all the time and it would give you some ride.. Cost ya about $100 that way. There's several ways to do it just depends on the amount of $ you want to spend and how involved you want to get....

 

Bag over leaf with S-10 mono-leafs would be nice, best would be bag over axle with a 4 link.

I wouldn't trust an old worn out factory leaf spring with a bag on top. Those springs weren't made to stand alone, and could easily break. You don't want to do **** twice.

A four link kit with a bag on top and a shraeder valve would be nice. You can buy a tank at Wal-Mart for $15 (pump up your tires air tank) and I've got a pair of Buick compressors for sale in the cl***ifieds $20 each, it'd be cheap to set up a rudimentary compressor/tank bag system. As long as you're doing the work, why not?

But I'm gonna be the first to say no to the 1500 lb. bags. On a nice, light roadster, they'd be great, but I'm bettin' that truck is relatively heavy, plus if you're gonna haul **** in it, best to use some 2500lb bags.

Plan ahead and set your system up to eventually bag the whole truck, because trust me, when you get that far, you'll want to.

 

OK. New plan.
I did more research today and spent several hours under the truck.
There is just too much under there that is not what I want. I am going to pull the bed and do it right, whatever that is.
I am liking the 4 link with bags idea. Dont know why. Just seems strong and simple with a lot of versitility.

Is there a diagrahm or an article or a post somewhere here that shows the do's and dont's of a 4 link?

Thanks again all JK

 

if you do go with the 4 link and bags try Pete and Jake's for the 4 link. i've known alot of people that have used it and are very happy both with the price and the quality. i would imagine it would have some kind of guidelines with it to help you set it up right.
a triangulated 4 link will allow you to NOT have to use a panhard bar. i don't like panhard bars with air bags because it makes the rearend move from side to side. on some rides that can cause you to have tire clearance issues on one side or the other because of the amount the suspension travels from deflate to full inflate.

 

I'm thinking at this point a trianglated 4 bar. I did find an article that explained the difference between triangalated and paralell, but I couldnt figure out how to post the link.

What about those parts kustombuilder?
I am checking out Petw and Jakes now.

 

what do you need to know??? i've done a few one off bag installs in my time (prolly about a million) and i worked as a suspension mechanic for three years. if i don't know the answer chances are i have a friend or two i can ask and get it.
i'm a small time dealer for Airlift. i mostly just sell to friends, HAMBers and the occasional install customer (though i have'nt taken on any in a year or so cause i've wanted to work on my own ****). the good news is i don't realy have to make more than a couple bucks on each kit. it gives me a couple bucks for the hot rod fund and gives you a good deal on some quality parts.
i always recomend the 4 path Crafter Pack which gives you control over each bag individualy. the advantages to that are that you can level your ride even when you have a fat chic on the p***enger side but more importantly it help reduce body roll in the corners by seperating the left and right bags from each other. it is recomended that at least the front is set up this way.
the crafter pack is nice because it gives you everything you will need for your system all in one package cheaper than you could piece together the same parts.
you get: 4 bags, 8 electric valves, 100% duty cycle compressor, 5 gallon tank, gauge/switch panel, all fittings, air line, electrical connectors, wire and a complete instruction guide.
i can get that for around $1200. thats $300 below retail last i checked. i might be able to do it a little cheaper, i have'nt checked prices lately. like i said, i don't sell alot.

anything else i can tell you???

 

Yeah there is, if you dont mind educating a suspension idiot.

Pete and Jakes is mostly front ends, but the parts they have for building a 4 link rear are very reasonable.

Do I need to bag the front?
I have some kind of a arm with coil springs (I havnt figured out what it is yet)
If I do, The shock is in the middle of the coil. What happens then? Just put the shock somewhere else? I am ***uming the bag replaces the coil.

 

you could always shockwave the front but i recommed relocating the shocks.if your gonna bag the rear may as well do it all.

 

Thanks guys. I had posted this a while ago and since have put in new leaf springs, shackles and shocks and fabed new cross members and mounts. Its all done.

I will be starting another early next year and I wll be calling on you Grim, you confirmed my suspisions about the kits. I wll make my own stuff and would definatly need your help.

Jim