Couple s10 frame questions and opinions needed

Ok first off I bought a 96 short box standard cab s10 frame with the intentions of building another s10. First thing i'm doing is buying air ride for it and making a rolling ch***is. I want to use a 5link from suicidedoors.com and have been pondering buying a 49-52 chevy body for it when the time comes for a body. I plan on adding 9 inches (i believe) to the frame to make it long enough to match the wheelbase for a two door 49-52 chevy. I'm not worried about the floor and mounts and such because we'll build an all new floor to fit around the frame and air ride when we get to that point. My main concern is that i've read some info and it seems people cut the back off the frame for some reason and i'm worried why because the air ride setup i plan on using has rear lift bars that the bags mount on and i don't want to not be able to use the 5 link setup because of having to cut the back off the frame i have. does anyone have anymore info on why people cut it off back there? i'm sure i'll have more questions also lol. thanks

 

The stock wheel base on a 49 chevy car is 115 inches, and your S10 should be about 108"

To get the body to fit on the S10 frame, the frame has to be trimmed since it is longer behind the rear wheels, and longer in front of the front wheels. You basically have to chop the rear of the frame right at the back of the rear crossmember where the rear spring shackles are. You just trim it so it is flush with the crossmember.

I would be very surprised if anyone made a suspension kit that used that section of the frame since it is only there to hold the pickup truck bumper on.

 

Dude the five link for SD works great on an S-10 because it gives you a good place to mount the bags with out having to move the gas tank but simply put your not building an s-10. Put the tank in the back between the frame rails where it belongs and mount your bags either on top of the axel or behind it. . Another thing to think about is you don't need the huge notch that comes with the SD kit to get an 47-53 chevy to lay out. Don't jsut sit back and throw money at the thing. Get the body and think it through completly. Your making it much harder than it needs to be.

 

that is one way to do it. you still have to mount the front end, rad support, and all that. You should at least get the two beasts in front of you and measure to make sure it is really how you want it. you can air bag a 49-54 chevy easier than a frame swap.

 

I know how i want it, the main thing is the suspension. no matter what im planning on having a rolling ch***is. i've had other bagged vehicles before and i didnt like the way they were setup at all and they were nice installs. im getting the 5 link and im about 99% sure of it. this is set to be a long term project for sure so im not worried about trying to complete it all at once, im planning on doing each section as its own project such as frame, motor, then body. im not gonna run my bags over or behind the axle because i hate the ride and the limited lift capabilities. if i dont have to cut more than 6-8 inches or so off of the back of my frame that i have then ill be able to run the 5 link and keep everything underneath laid out how i have it planned. ive spent countless days pondering suspension ideas and such and ive never seen someone with a old chevy with the type of suspension i want. maybe im just too far out there i guess. Also, i dont have a 49-52 chevy and all i want is the body, i bought this frame so i could have a v8 and a lot nicer suspension install.

 

what do you REALLY want? s10s aren't superior to a stock frame that's notched in the rear with mII, or vette front end. a motor swap in an s10 ch***is will still require alot of work to clear the firewall, so you gained nothing in ease of operation. I don't mean to tell you what to do, but step back and consider your options before you spend cash on parts you don't need.

 

the reason i didnt buy a stock frame is because i have not seen one air ride setup on these cars that i care for, i mean yeah ive seen very clean installs and nice work but not the type of thing i want. the firewall issue is no biggie either, like i said the origianl plan was to buy a bare body and build around what i have and plan on having when the ch***is is done. Like i said before though, my intentions when i first picked up the frame was to build another s10 but i decided i didnt want the same stuff the rest of my club has and wanted to be different i guess.

 

the two piece windshield likes to be supported there, you may want to think about HOW the body attaches to the frame DURING ch***is fab. Just a suggestion. look around 50chevy.com, its a fantastic resource on these cars.

 

he is right. you don't need that setup for what your wanting to do. my buddy has that setup on his V8 S10 that we did a stock floor BD on. in hind sight (and now that he got me involved) he did'nt need it either. i could have fabbed him something better for his particular needs. the SD 5 link is a goot product, i'm not knocking it, but for what you want to do it is unnecesary. a regular ole 4 link (perhaps Pete and Jake's) will do the trick much better (and probably cheaper). i would personaly (more than likely) just fab up a 2 link with a panhard bar and mount the bags on the bars in front of the rear end (to get a little extra lift due to the mechanical advantage). having room for the rear seat will be a concern with any system you run back there so keep that in mind. your doing the right thing by asking questions and thinking this all through before you do anything you might later regret. i could give you pointers all day but the fact is i need to get in the shower and get off to work. i'm already late. gotta go.....

 

ive been on there for along time and checked a lot of stuff out, but most stuff i've seen anywhere is stock frames with not much but real simple 4 link setups with the bags on the axle. i've never seen stuff with new floors and more elaborate suspensions. i realize the firewall is important for support but the floors and firewall and everything on the inside basically would be rebuilt.

 

just saw your post kustom- ive run forward 4 links with the bags on the bars before and thats still a thought but the problem there is totally losing backseat room and im not even going to consider the 2 link option. pinion angle and ride quality at all heights is key to me. i could even shorten the bars on a 5 link in the rear to accomodate the body. also, i want the stock gas tank or similar to sit where it does on the frame and thats another thing i like about the 5 link. the only reason im so set on that suspension setup is because its very well thought out and has a lot of advantages and ive had other setups before and was never happy.

 

Please don't take offence to any of what we have said. Many of us have simply been there and done that. It sounds to me like you are set on the SD system because of the hype. Please keep in mind Jason designed that suspension for the S-10. He had to make compromises to the Ideal system to get it to work. There is no need for you to make such sacrifices. If you have the skills to weld up that system then you should have the skills build your own system that works better. After all you have a blank slate to work with. If ride quality truly is key you better keep looking. Those bars are so short the ride quality will suffer. What is the advantage of having the gas tank mounted in the stock s-10 location. Seems a little silly to me. Again no disrespect here. This place is a huge wealth of knowledge, its up to you to decide what to do with it.

 

the 5 link isn't hype to me. i've been around and spent a lot of time with looking up what i've wanted suspension whise. and i've ridden in a lot of trucks with that setup and many others too and thats what i liked best. i take no offense at all to the help i've gotten, its great and very much appreciated. i dont know why you said ride quality would suffer because the bars are too short though. and the advantage of keeping the tank where it is is that then its not stuck out back behind the axle and i wouldnt have to worry about draggin through it. the 5 link raisies the tank in its stock location plus its protected a lot more by the frame. im very open to other suggestions but so far everyone i've talked to has had any better suggestions lol.

 

Well this has been buggin me all day so does anyone have any other opinions or ideas? i guess all i pretty much want is to build a great air ride setup on this frame and make it compatible with the body i want, im open to ideas

 

your not gonna run the S10 gas tank without running into SERIOUS issues withthe back seat. you said you wanted to keep the back seat. you can't have the S10 tank AND the back seat. aint gonna work. sorry.

 

how cant you run the s10 gas tank? it mounts under where the front seat would be. the only other option is to run a forward 4 link with the bags on the bars and a blazer gas tank or fuel cell behind the axle or in the truck, which if i stick with the five link i could put a fuel cell in the trunk, hmmm
edit- i did some lookin at pics and thinking, if i run a v8 thered be no sense in trying to deal with the stock tnak anyway so i could just mount up a cell in the trunk and as far as the back seat goes, thats not a huge issue and the only thing that would get in the way would be the suspension but id rather make the sacrifice. i just dont wanna give up and start over AGAIN

 

You've made an edit and that is great because I was just going to tell you that the stock tank sits too high. I'm putting an S10 under a 48 Sedan Delivery and as we lowered the body down, I cut off the tank. It was going to be WAY in the way. Like 4" or more BEFORE I start channeling the body down. It interfered with the front and back seat area of the car.

I'm hearing talk of the first gen Mustang tank but may just fab something up.

There are a couple of cars on here with S10 frames, see RacerRick for details and dvanicheck as well. I'm cutting it off about 4" behind the spring mounts. I cut once and it is in the way of the rear panel by 2" so a second cut will occur. 4 day weekend dead ahead!

 

put the gas tank where it belongs, behind the axle. put the air tank in the trunk. the mustang gas tank actually replaces the old rusted trunk floor, all in 1 unit.

 

well i think i'll be able to make the five link work and i can put the cell in the trunk along with an air tank or two which could also be mounted behind the axle with the lift bars.

 

You are going to need to stretch the S10 ch***is you have. I would get a 117.9" wheelbase frame and use that instead. They are the standard cab, long beds. Its much easier to cut 3" out than it is to lengthen 7".

You will not be using the stock S10 gas tank. Its really in the way. If you are going super low, a fuel cell in the trunk is the only way to do it safely.

The engine sit forward in the S10 ch***is compared to most and you will have about 8" from the back of stock motor to the firewall. If you make new engine mounts you can use cheap 70-81 camaro headers by moving the engine back closer to the firewall. You can use the stock firewall. You can use the stock floor for the most part (two small notches under the back seat need to be cut out for the frame) if you want to start at stock S10 ride height. I channeled mine 6" and made a new floor. Now I have no back seat because of how the S10 frame kicks up. Mounting the front clip is hard if you channel is since the frame will sit so high inside the body.

 

im gonna mount the suspension and motor and then build the body around it with a whole new floor and firewall if needed. its gonna lay the rockers on the ground and maybe end up cutting some of the rockers off for the sake of being low. i think since there will be pretty much no back seat it would be nice place to mount a couple air tanks and make it look not so empty. once i get the ch***is how i want it i will buy a chevy body and start fabbing around the ch***is. thanks for the tips though, at least you didnt say its a waste of money and pointless hahaha

 

its a waste of money and pointless!!!! well not realy but you should realy think things through before you get too carried away. your going to want to find a car that you can at least get some measurements off from for things such as placing th emotor in the right spot and getting the wheels base right. no sense making it harder on yourself than you have to.
there are alot of gas tanks that would work great and fit right between the frame rails in the trunk area. an early Mustang or Falcon have about the same tank and the top of the tank is actually the center part of the trunk floor. the tank in my 47 Chevy coupe would fit very well under the trunk floor aswell and i think 41-48 had just about the same tank back there. should'nt be hard to find one and it should be cheap (if not free). i'm using a 65 Mustng tank between the rails on my 48 Chevy truck which i put on on S10 frame with bags. i'm building a long trailing arm set up (basicly a 2 link with panhard bar) with the bags mounted in front of the axle over the arms. i'm using single convaluted bags for a better ride and with the arms being as long as they will be i will have very little pinion angle change at the rear end. i plan to pull a trialer with this thing and that is one of the biggest reasons i decided to go with the "truck bar" or 2 link trailing arm rear suspension. it's strong and a proven design. Clark has been using his for a while now on the same kind of truck pulling all kinds of **** all over the place.

i did do a very trick one off set up a while back on a 96 Yukon that i did a bunch of work on. i tossed the 4x4 frame and used the front sub from a 2wd full size truck. i Z'd it in the front and build an entire new frame from the firewall back. i did a very unique "Z-bar" type of 2 link. i used to be a suspension mechanic and worked on LOTS of semi trucks. this is similar to the "Z-spring" air bag set up on a semi. i used a diagonal link from the front of one bar to the rear of the other bar to keep the rear end square without using a panhard bar because tire clearance was going to be a serious issue with this boat layin rocker on 22s. for clrearance issues and to limit pinion angle diferrences i went with a 2 piece drive shaft. the carrier bearing was pretty much lined up with the front pivot points of the trailing arms (or "Z-bars") so the angle at the pinion barely changes at all from all the way down to over 10" of lift. that lift was thanks to mounting the bags on the Z-bars just ahead of the rearend. plenty of lift and a good ride.


now, on my 47 coupe i plan to keep the stock frame. i'd concidered an S10 swap but decided to keep the stock frame and go with MII front end. it'll end up less work in the long run. for the rear i'm going to build a 4 link pretty much just like a factory GM coil spring car. i've even got a couple extra lower arms from a 70 Monte Carlo i bagged a couple years back. those will be my new lower bars on the 47. i have a GM 10 bolt out of a coil spring car so the upper bar's triangulated bushings are already in place so i'll use them for my suspension. the work is half done for me this way.

i've done ALOT of thinking on this exact idea that you have. i've got a 50 Chevy in the shop right now that will be getting an S10 frame under it. i'm not sure of how much of the rear of the frame i will be using yet because i'm not going to comprimise interior space to get it low. i don't have to. it will have a full back seat. my buddy, who owns the car, has two youngsters anyways so he'll need the space for baby seats. compressors and tank will be neatly tucked under the package tray in the trunk area. the g*** tank will fit neatly under the trunk floor and there will be plenty of roof for groceries in the trunk. it will be channeled too but we are'nt cutting the rockers. thats just stupid (in my humble opinion).
i've built ALOT of minitrucks (you may have seen a few in the magazines), worked for years as a suspension mechanic, done ALOT of one off air ride suspension on trucks and hot rods and been tinkering with old cars all my life. this is all just my advice (with an opinion or two in there for good measure) feel free to take it or leave it but do yourself a favor and think the project through COMPLETELY from front to back and top to bottom before you commit to expensive parts that might not be right for your application. and get a good look at one of these cars so you can measure things out and figure out where things are gonna need to be place, like the engine for instance. you wanna make sure you have that in the right place or it might interfere with your foot room or end up out where the radiator should be. i little time spent planning and measuring can make the whole project go smoother and turn out better. good luck.

 

damn kustom, i dont even know where to start. i know im making it sound harder than i want it too be. i just dont wanna get let down again and have something im not happy with. id really love to be able to just have a stock car and go from there but idk if id be happy with the suspension. maybe im better off selling the frame i have and finding an old 49-52 chevy.

 

wow! all this tech advice at once is way cool! you just got a million dollars worth of tech for free. their is a vast difference between " giving in " to peer pressure and comprehension of " valued advice".

 

I've seen Kustombuilder's **** and he ain't fibbin about fabbin. He's a hell of a guy, too. I stand right behind him on his advice. Go get a frickin car. At least a shell. You can pick up a rotty parts car for a couple of hundred bucks, put it in the air using a couple of beams and 4 saw horses, and roll the frame under it. You can then see what you have to work with. My 48 Sedan Delivery is sitting on top of the frame all cattywhumpus but I can make the measurements, see what the weight will do to the S10 frame, see what the length needs to be, and cut without wondering. I'll jack it back up, roll the frame out, and work in it from there. I used a chain fall on a rail to lift the front and a floor jack with some 4x4"s to lift the rear. My 2 young sons got a good workout running around blocking it up as we lifted it.

In 1 afternoon I got more info than if I would have just measured the hell out of it. I hope to cut the floor this weekend but I've got about a million other things to work on as well so it may wait until Christmas break.

Don't sell the frame you've got, just go get a car to measure on. Someone is bound to have an old 4 door parts car laying around cheap (I've got a 54) and the floor and length are the same.

 

why would i go buy a 4 door parts car just for the measurements?

 

...this has been interesting,...but it seems to me instead of doing all this work, a guy could almost just build a rectangular tube frame from scratch with the rite rear axle kick-up and graft the S-10 clip to it a whole lot easier. Has anyone done this?

 

CHEAP! And lots of the parts can be swapped over. All of the dash, front gl***, front clip, grill, deck lid, tail lights, etc. will go from sedan to sedan. Some fo this even goes from sedan to coupe or fastback. That way you've got a 'buck' to go from and you don't have to sweat hacking up a good 2 door and you can use it as a learning experience.

Sounds like you're happy spend the dough on the frame work and you've got that experience, wouldn't you want to do the body right as well? Doesn't have to be a 4 door, can be a cheap 2 door but if you want something that still resembles a floor and lower body, you'll spend less on a 4 door than a 2 door. When you're done you can s**** whatever you don't need!

Just a suggestion. I've parted out 3 4 doors and made my money back on them, got the parts I needed for my 54, and still have a shell that I could do just what I'm suggesting with.

 

that is more or less what we have in mind for this 50 Chevy.


i ment to mention that an extended cab short box S10 frame is much flatter through the middle than the others. meaning the kick up is back much further. i don't think the wheelbase is right but like someone mentioned earlier it is much easier to shorten a frame than lengthen one. especialy an S10 frame. just ask Danimal. you can cut it off where there fectory welded the rails to the front sub, chop off what you need it to be shortened and then weld it back together on the factory seam.
besides, S10 long beds are hard to find and E-cabs are all over.

it would certainly help to have the body right there while you where making your frame mods but if you can find a body (or complete car) that somebody has localy and talk them into letting you at it with the tape measure you could gain some valuable information and insight. and just keep shopping around for a body in the meantime.

 

how far back does the motor have to sit from where it does now? I think as long as i get the frame dimensions right and set then when it comes time for a body i'll be good to go. i dont have a ton of money to spend on this at the time so i dont wanna go buy a bunch of parts i dont need right now and end up having to wait even longer.