Slightly O/T. For fans of the week leading up to Woodward Dream Cruise

Brian, yes, they can and do in some cities, have a no cruising ban, which means you can not cruz by the same location twice in a certain time frame. They do, and can, pull you over and issue a ticket. Try fighting that one in court.

Making sure these types of ordiances AREN'T p***ed is the point of this whole thing.

Berkley and Royal Oak MUST have a "No Lottiering" ordiance or you wouldn't have to sit in Birmingham right?? We are safe sitting at the Shell Station because the owner of the property is right there and allows it. Sitting next door in front of the Pier One will get you a cop there in no time ASKING you to move on.

 

You're right Denise. I thought about the police issue last last night. I agree that will go nowhere. My goal with that was to prove how much money was wasted with their extra patrols for the weeks leading up to the actual cruise. I realize that they will never thin that down no matter how rediculous it is. Then, someone will take that and accuse me of not wanting any police at all, which isn't what I meant at all. I just thought it was unbelieveable that the Thursday before the cruise, we counted 18 motorcycle cops and 24 patrol cars, with the armored ***ault vehicle from Oakland County parading up and down Woodward....for almost an hour. They looked like Nazis. It was hilarious. There was no threat whatsoever to anyone, but they kept parading.

Anyway, I am just going focus my attentions on my poll of supportive businesses and present that to the city council in both Royal Oak and Berkley.

 

Fact of the matter is, the CAR SHOW in Ferndale might still raise money for charity AND the monies raised from selling a few of the spots in front of the Kroger at 13 Mile that are rented out to the members of MHRA and Americas Most Wanted Car Club go to the Boys & Girls Club of Royal Oak, BUT don't think for minute that the citys aren't making money from the corp sponsors to pay for the costs of doing the cruz and then some. The cities aren't going through all the h***le of this just to be nice guys.

The cost of just paying the out of area police persons to attend has to be mindboggling. Did you happen to see the 78 State Police on motorcycles at 10pm on Friday nite. It was a site to see. How many of those guys were on overtime?? I'd say 100% What about all the sheffifs on horseback?? There are millions of dollars worth of costs to do this events paid for by millions of dollars in corp fees. We're past the little donations to charity that this started out to be 10 years ago.

 

I posted this over on the Ricer board i belong to as well. Belive it or not most of those guys have fought for cruising in the past. There not a bunch of street racing retarts and im sure would be willing to do all they can to prevent this.

 

I'm not sure if Royal Oak has an actual NO LOITERING law written in stone. If they don't, they will shortly. The Gratiot Cruise in June is an awesome event, excellently organized, an all around fun day. But, the city of Roseville has never participated in it, so now there are 2 seperate Gratiot Cruises. One for 8 mile to Roseville, and another from where Roseville ends up past Mount Clemens called the North Gratiot Cruise.

Roseville DOES have a cruising law, and like Denise said, if they see you drive by too many times, you WILL get a ticket. Not just for cruising either, they will check your car top to bottom, and write you up for anything they can.

Since that precedent has been set, this is what I am trying to keep from happening in Berkley, and more importantly, Royal Oak. They waste no time at all kicking you out of a parking space if they see you in one. This doesn't affect cars though. Wednesday night in downtown Royal Oak has always been Bike Night. Now they are h***ling bikers down there. When I say "bikers", I mean anyone who has a bike parked on Main Street. The businesses LOVE them down there, because all they do is spend money. Whether its a restaraunt or a coffee shop, everyone wins. Last year the Royal Oak cops started cracking down on the Harleys for anything from loud pipes to having ape hangers to having your bike lowered. Thousands of tickets were written. Now, its driving the bikers out to other cities who are more receptive to them and the business hate it. We aren't talking like 100 bikes either, we're talking a few thousand every Wednesday. And, it is always peacefull....always.

The city of Royal Oak finds both the cruisers and the bikers a thorn in their side, so they have plenty of reasons to p*** these cruising laws.

 

As far as how much the cities have to gain from the Dream Cruise....here's an example. Almost every year of the Dream Cruise, FORD rented out a lot owned by the city of Berkley. This lot was on the Southbound (West) side of Woodward south of 12 Mile Road. Last year the lot was sold by the city to a bank and they were under construction during the time of the cruise. Ford asked Berkley if they owned another comparable sized lot on Woodward that they could rent, and Berkley did not, so Ford went somewhere else. Berkley said in every local newspaper that without the Ford money, they might not be able to participate in the Woodward Dream Cruise. Wanna know what Ford used to pay Berkley for that lot before Berkley sold it? $400,000 for 3 days, every year. This is where Ford put up that Mustang Diner thing they did every year, with the stage for bands. It wasn't that big of a lot either.

Point is, the corporations like Eaton and the Big 3 spend BIG DOLLARS to have their name plastered all over the place. I'm sure that money is picking up the tab for cleanup and police, but it doesn't make it any less rediculous.

My main problem with this whole thing is this: Royal Oak and Berkley have NO problem letting cars cruise and park when they get paid millions from Corporations, but they hate like hell to let you cruise when there is nothing in it for them.

Those 2 cities, a good majority of their yearly budget money comes from selling out to corporations for the Woodward Dream Cruise. Remember the first 2 years of the Dream Cruise, those were the best. Very few sponsors, and just people cruising all day long.....with not ONE incident in 1.5 million people each year. Well, they ****ed that all up with greed.

Memorial Park on the corner of 13 and Woodward is a PUBLIC park, where you used to be able to park a car. They rented that out too...a PUBLIC PARK that is paid for by tax dollars! There are less and less places to park every year because nobody can match corporate money.

 

Yes, you are right, and it all boils down to money. Having "Bike Nites" and "Cruz Nites" do nothing for the city municipalities but cost them money. It only benifits the businness owners and THATS why you have to get them to back you or you haven't got a chance.

Make sure you focus on bars, resturants, party stores, drug stores, gas stations, churches, schools, etc, businesses that benifit from cruzrs and try to stay away from getting the office building and other such businesses involved. Getting the businesses on Main Street involved is a good idea along with the businesses on the mile roads, 12 Mile for example.

 

and thats just for one of their spots. Try tripling that figure for Shane Park in Birmingham. No ****.

 

toby, its awesome to see people like you want to step in and keep things right. a lot of people take cruises for granted.

 

Easy way to check the benefit of pre-cruise is to get occupancy rates of major hotels within a 30 mile radius of the week B4 the cruise. then - factor in a per-diem rate for food, and you can quickly estimate how much money is being dropped in town as a result of pre-cruise activity.

 

It's funny because I know the guy who owns the Magic bag, and he's not the one who's refered to in that article. The real owner of the building has 9 cl***ic cars (mostly Chryslers and a couple of Hudsons) and he LOVES the dream cruise. His son is the manager of the Magic bag, the one in the article who hates the cruise.

Sounds like a father/son thing...

As for last year, I was out from 9 am to 10 pm last year in three different cars on the dream cruise weekend. I got to cruise the whole day with only a few slow downs in the morning (due to rain) and at night. The most rediculas corporate sponsorship had to be the "scion funeral home". There were so few cars cruising the entire time I was out. I say mostly new cars out, and very few people were using the "cruise lanes" making a less enjoyable cruise for all.

It's going to be hard to battle the side streets public off of woodward. I think these are the major complainers in this group and not so much the businesses up and down woodward. As soon as the folks who live one block off can rent out their driveways for $500 a day, they won't complain anymore either.

 

I think the major problem with the people that live on the sidestreets directly off of Woodward is this: When the police are finally ordered to shut Woodward down at 9pm, they set up barricades at all of the mile roads and major cross streets. This now routes everyone who's cruising on Woodward down residential sidestreets.

If you need to go down 13 mile to get home from Woodward, you can't. The police have it blocked off. This now forces you to take whatever side streets you can to get home.

I'll tell you this, I love cars with all my heart. I have 3 cl***ics. But I would be FURIOUS if the police routed 100,000 cars down my sidestreet at 9pm. Hell, even 1,000 cars down my sidestreet. I can completely understand and relate to the homeowners who live there. I would be complaining too. But I don't think the problem is the cruisers, I think the fault rests on the shoulders of the cities who are routing traffic down side streets in the first place.

Anyone who knows my and knows my truck, knows how ungodly loud and obnoxious it is. I don't even like bringing it home at night, and I know every single one of my neighbors and we're all friends. Now imagine something like that, multiply'd by 1000 idleing down your street at night....every night for 3 or 4 nights. Yeah, I completely understand where these people are coming from. I'm just saying before you ban the pre-cruising, maybe take a look at your traffic control strategies first. Maybe they're not working and the cities are actually at fault.

As for corporate money goes....I don't even want to think how much money they spend for the **** they do. I mean, $400,000 for 3 DAYS on a small lot in Berkley! I can't imagine how much Daimler Chrysler pays to Beaumont for the Northwood Shopping Center they rent every year. Beaumont Hospital is who owns that. They are the ones who demand that it be barricaded off every year, not Kroger or any of the other stores in that strip mall. In fact, the Kroger Corporation wrote in an editorial 3 years ago to the local paper about how much they love the cruisers hanging out there all week. So did Rite Aid. Everyone was going in there for food, beer, pop, whatever. The rest of the businesses were closed, so it didn't affect them one bit. Its Beaumont Hospital that doesn't want cruisers in there. There is no way on earth I'll ever get through to anyone there and I doubt anyone will.

I do want to say this though, I greatly appreciate everyone's support and good wishes so far. I also TRULY and GREATLY appreciate everyone's offers for help on this. I'm sure I'll need it. The legwork of going from business to business isn't that hard, but its getting more than 2 people to show up at city council meetings that is going to be the key.

I would love to see representatives from local car clubs and organizations fill these city council meetings when this issue finally comes up.

Thank you very much again!

Toby Mathe

 

Well I always wanted to go up there for this cruz, But I think I will just stay here in ohio and spend my money here, Mich. must not need my tax $$$$$ that bad that they want to ticket you.

 

Let's see If I live in ohio and drive up there to go and cruzing I will have to buy gas, and then I may need to eat sometime that day and I may even get thirsty and want to buy a pop or two then oh wait I need a t-shirt to remember this buy and a hat to maybe a few t-shirt,I may need to get a motel cuz I'm tired of cruzing all day and wounld't you know I may need more GAS to get home the next day of course that after I stop and have breakfest,What a bunch of retards running that city.

 

Oh boy is this a old thread, How the heck did I get here anyways.

 

Last Saturday....not THIS Saturday...last Saturday night the City of Royal Oak had their police dept put up 'temporary' 35mph speed limit signs overtop of the normal 50mph signs....to what end you might ask? To write some paying-paper (tickets) of course...I have no problem with the officers doing as they are ordered, even the Man works for the Man sometimes... but the city of Royal Oak neeeeeeds to understand that selective laws enforced upon selective groups of people at selective times is normally referred to as 'discrimination'. When a group of law-abiding citizens are targeted and singled-out for what is ostensively a speed-trap, that smacks of tyranny to my political sensitivities...Kinda like in Robin Hood when the Sheriff of Nottingham would set up Road Tax Collectors wherever and whenever he felt like the Kingdom's coffers needed some more duckets...same basic BS idea, 500 years apart..

Let me put it to you like this....can you imagine the ****-storm the city of Royal Oak would have on their hands if let's say they tried this tactic during an proposed convention in their city for either the NRA, AARP, NAACP or the ACLU or similar groups that have great media relationships? They wouldn't know what hit them...but because we're HAMBers, Rodders, and car enthusiasts in general coming to Royal Oak for a 'car event' the Woodward Dream Cruise, I suppose they feel they can treat us with unbridled oppression...Nice Royal Oak...nice way to lay out the welcome mat.

 

"Last Saturday....not THIS Saturday...last Saturday night the City of Royal Oak had their police dept put up 'temporary' 35mph speed limit signs overtop of the normal 50mph signs....to what end you might ask? To write some paying-paper (tickets) of course..."

Since Woodward is under jurisdiction of the State, I do not believe Royal Oak can change the speed limit, even temporarily, without State approval. If anyone got a ticket, find out if they had State permission, if not the a Judge should dismiss the ticket.

 

Welllll....maybe they did get state approval ?!?!? If so, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Let's just say I didn't stop to ask the gendarmes what the story was as I blew by the first 35mph sign at 50+ not expecting to see the 'new' 35mph signs...I was rolling south on Woodward and as I crossed from Birmingham where the speed limit was still normal...once I rolled into the Royal Oak portion of Woodward the 35mph signs appeared...once I rolled out of Royal Oak and into the Berkley area, the speed limit returned to 50mph...the new 35 mph signs were the free-standing, spring-loaded kind that you see in construction zones-which let me clarify-I saw no road construction, no construction workers...just 'new' temporary 35mph signs with police cruisers parked underneath each one...and in 20 minutes, I counted 8 cars pulled over-to the defense of the police, I did not see a single rodder or antique car pulled over, only modern daily drivers...so maybe the police like the cruisers, but it sure seems to me like the city of Royal Oak does not...Of course, the city officials all say 'the right things' to the reporters on TV, Radio and print and then when the spotlight is not on them they revert back to trying to h***le the cruisers before the event begins...During the actual Cruise the police do a great job of keeping the peace and being helpful to stranded cruisers and motorists and in general, I have no complaints about the Cruise day itself, but in the days and weeks rolling up to the Cruise, when I see what seems to be 'targeted enforcement tactics' aimed squarely at law-abiding citizens such as our fellow Cruisers, I find that offensive to my sense of Justice and above all-Freedom...

It's not just Royal Oak...ask folks in Virginia Beach, VA about their 'anti cruising' tickets along the waterfront...from what I understand if the local police see you making more than one p*** along the waterfront, you get a nice fat 'cruising ticket'...Nice.

I'm sure other areas have similar 'laws' on the books to discriminate against car enthusiasts; laws we should fight by voting out the people that voted for such laws. Just like NRA and other groups do...If you don't support our hobby, if you help create laws that try and punish our perfectly legal fun, then those lawmakers have to be voted out and replaced with politicians and officials who 'get it'...

I can only say it but so well...I am not eloquent...but this feller is..

“I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to p*** laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Cons***ution or that have failed their purpose, or that impose on the people an unwarranted financial burden. I will not attempt to discover whether legislation is ``needed'' before I have first determined whether it is cons***utionally permissible. And if I should later be attacked for neglecting my cons***uents "interests,'' I shall reply that I was informed that their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can.”-Barry Goldwater.

 

I was just thinking is there any way to find out if this is against your right's, I mean in the fed's case, I mean let's say I go to V.A. beach to vist in my f250 pick-up truck and I go down the street to my hotel and check in and then go back up the street to get some thing to eat and oh wait I forgot something back at the hotel and go back, Now am I cruzing or just driving around Now put yourself in that same place but in a 69 Z28 and, you see what I'm saying this cruzing thing has got to be against our rights.

 

I'm so glad here in ohio we have cruz nights every night of the week and nobody bothers you. Cuz if we had this law here I would have alot of fines to pay cuz I drive my car all over town all day long makeing stops at home depo and wal-mart.

 

Yeah the Royal Oak police are like the Gestapo during the cruise. I was thinking of makeing a shirt with a ******** on it that said "Royal Oak police" and Dream Cruise 2008 on the back. Wouldn't mind having dinner in O.C.J. but I would be worried about my car being towed to Mohammed's towing in Detroit. Been going every year and it gets worse every year.

 

That's funny... there are NONE of these problems at the "Back to the Bricks" cruise in Flint, the very same weekend as Woodward...