Need flow characteristics for Weiand Drag Star or Edelbrock version...

Hey guys! I was wondering if anyone has some spec sheets for Weiand Drag Star manifolds (6x2) or the similar Edelbrock EO6 (6x2) intake manifold. for early Hemi engines?

See pics for manifolds in question.

Thanks guys!
Scooter

 

Bttt

 

Anyone know where I could start looking then? Does Weiand or Edelbrock even have this information?

 

I certinally dont have any flow data on these , but I can offer one comment on them. This really is more of a problem with a race engine.The runner and plenum design tends to make these set ups really sensitive to long duration camshafts....... By chance if you have ever seen any pics of old dragsters useing these manifolds , you often saw a thin metal cover over the front ,rear and the tops of the carbs ( leaving the sides exposed to allow air to the carbs ).This was done to stop the drivers from getting gas , alky or nitro showered all over them.On a long duration cam the intake closes late and it actually pushing a good deal of A/F back out of the cylinder , up the runners / plenum and out the carbs...... This is a serious reversion problem.... add to that the siphon effect of high mph trying to siphon fuel out of the carbs..... made this metal top almost a necessity.

If you are useing them with a small or modest camshaft it's not too much of a problem.... But when the crossrams started being introduced ( especially the 2x4 versions ) for various engines , the plenum and runner design was far better at handeling the reversion than these older manifolds could.

As for old flow data , I'd be suprised if Weiand had any , since flowbenches were scarce back then when those intakes were designed.I know Phil Weiand used to work with Warren Brownfield back in the late 60's , Warren had a homemade flowbench and did some work for them..... but that was probably in the design of their later manifolds..... And since Holley purchased Weiand some years ago..... who knows maybe they still have some of that old data..... but finding the right person to dig it up might be difficult at Holley.

Even by the 1966/1967 era those old manifolds were being obsoleted.

Maybe an independent who was around back then ...someone like Mondello might have some old data laying around ?

 

Thanks for the input! Good tip on using a cam with too much duration.

Is this the Mandello you speak of?
http://www.mondellotwister.com/

I've contacted both Edelbrock and Holley/Weiand, but I don't expect much in return for info... with that being said, I would be curious what cams you guys are running with these manifolds. I'm more intersted in engines built for street not strip running. I would really like to pick up one of these manifolds and find a nice street cam to run with it.

 

Something else that has been weighing in my mind about these two manifolds it the cross tubes. The Weiand has 2 smaller cross-tubes and the Edelbrock has three larger cross-tubes. Seems like the flow and balance characteristics would be very different between the two. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

Log manifolds will throw you a 'Pool Party' in the runners...

They were designed for full-race, top-end, special fuels, cars and will not like low RPMs and traffic...

Yes, I know they can be made to work on a driver but they won't work as well as a cast manifold.

As to the question about how they 'Flow'...

Those intakes aren't restrictive at all. They will allow as much mixture into the engine as it can ****. But with the log design and the multiple carb ports, they have a hard time keeping fuel particles in suspension. The mixture eddies in the tubes and the fuel pools in the runners. Making for a car that's hard to tune, and will load up at stop lights.

 

Here's a view of the cross tubes...

Edelbrock (low rise shown)


Here's the Weiand (low rise shown)



Looking at the low rise versions, would a low rise type log manifold be a little more streetable than the taller type shown at top?

 

You don't need a whole lot of volume p***ing between the logs to simply ballance the intake charge....

I think the Weiand design is plenty. With the added inside volume of the cross tubes on the Edelbrock, you're compounding the problem of an intake that already has too much mixture capacity for your average street motor on pump g***...

It's like bolting a blower on the motor without the impellers...

 

Great info! I'm a dumb*** when it comes to manifold flow, so I thought I better ask and educate myself so I don't get myself in trouble. What do you think about the lower rise Drag Stars?

Something else I've seen is people running the low rise version with tall carb adapters... having the ram height at each carb instead below the log. Any thoughts on that? Still overkill and a tuning nightmare?

 

Here's the low version (for those of you who haven't seen it). Picture from Victor Library...

 

Well it's essentially the same design, but I guess the low version might transfer heat better and help keep the intake charge slightly warmer and less likely to pool...

I'd say that no matter what design you use, if your set on 6+ 2s, you're going to be fighting the same issues.

I'd go with the low design if it was me... Aren't there any of the more traditional, cast, 1-piece, 6 or 8 2s manifolds for your motor?

 

There is a 6x2 that's a cross ram design, but finding it and then PAYING for it is a whole nother ball game. There are a few full cast 6x2's floating around, but not many.

 

Yes this is the company. I would imagine that Joe Mondello is now retired , and may not even own the company any more.Call and ask for Paul. Paul only works part time now but he has been around the industry since the 50's.Paul wont have the flow data but he might know if Joe had any data stashed anywhere.Joe Mondello did alot of cylinder heads back in the 60's..... Cant guarentee anything but it might be worth a shot.

 

Thanks! I'll check into it!

 

Hello..great post...I'm building 241 Red Ram .030 over, streetable cam grind, HEI ignition, and custom built headers.(after the engine is installed).Anyway, I want to use a 4x2 log with two crossovers and Stromberg 97s..Too much gas??? Can I setup a progressive linkage, one 97 forward on one log and one 97 back on the other log and progress the other two..will the cylinders run lean..
Thanks
Duane..

 

Very much agreed. Seriously, I probably would never run a log manifold on a car, since I drive all mine. This is why I only own one drag star intake.......

A 2x4 manifold with 4bbl-2x2 adapters would look awesome and most likely perform better.

 

And they could be hooked up to be progressive running the front & third carb as primary with the second and fourth as the secondaries...

 

Holley/Weiand already got back to me. There reply was "I show it in my 1965 catalog, but I know nothing beyond that." Exactly what I expected!

 

Didn't they make an inline 4x2 intake for early hemis?

If I ever build one, that's what I want to run.

 

Cragar made one... B*** has one on his coupe. Very cool looking!

 

For Chryslers Cragar & Wieand. The Cragar is open plenum, the Wieand isnt & would have to run all 4 all the time.

 

There are worse designs for intakes, I just can't think of any of them at the moment. One of the important things that an intake has to do is keep the air moving in the same direction, towards the intake valve. If you could see the air moving around in the intake when the motor is running it would look like a chinese firedrill, with air molecules being ****ed from one end to the other, some never even making it past the valve.

Seymour, do you ever check your damn email?

 

I used a Cragar 4x2 years back , I tried it with all four at the same time and got pretty good results by changing jet sizes about 4-6 steps rich in the front carb and steping down toward the rear . No progressive linkage. It was and still is a terrible design but it looked cool then and gas was only 39.9 a gallon. Joe Moondello is still in business , he recently moved to the southeast to retire but decided he would keep working and teaching his trade . He was honored at this years CHRR and is still going strong.

 

I wonder if logs would work better if you JB welded them up some. JB Welding intake ports is popular a**** superbike tuners because the smaller ports keep velcity up. The same thing could be applied here, close up the runners to keep the velocity up, and keep fuel in suspension better, although it would take ALOT fo JB weld, and a flow bench would be benificial.

 

the crazy thing about the weiand is that its just split side to side, not balanced by every other cylinder in the firing order like a true dual plane, so yeah its better than being just fully open, but still not 100%

 

Too much gas???

No such thing - it's too much air.

They were designed for full-race, top-end, special fuels, cars and will not like low RPMs and traffic

That's also the way L4, L6 and L8 1 × 1 manifolds were designed for 100 years. Having mixture reversal in the log is perfectly normal.
The problem (simultaneous linkage advocates: go have your nails done) is that it requires high vacuum to work. More carbs operating = lower vacuum at all throttle positions.
The time period 1940-60 was when the speed equipment people made things you couldn't get on a car, but in general their engineering was inferior to the original designers (who were handicapped by the accountants and sales staff).
IMHO "balance tubes" are one of those "well, it stands to reason that..." ideas that don't work (cure a problem that doesn't exist, and induce one you don't want).
The difference between a race log manifold and a street log manifold is simple - just like today.
Big carb + big plenum volume = race.
Small carb + small plenum volume = street.

 

Whoa.... here's an old thread.

 

panic is way smart