Period correctness: When does it become self indulgent/destructive...

You have to go with the modern (read that..SAFE) stuff these days, if you are smart. The standard of excellence was a lot lower 50 years ago.......Even 35 years ago, I saw some pretty ****py, unsafe vehicles ..........I wouldn't drive them today.

Some of these Rat Rods are even worse than that...............Some are better, even with the vintage parts too....They are just put together better.

There are cases wher vintage parts would be just fine today...You have to remember that brake shoes, rubber seals etc are a better quality than they were 50 years ago............in most caes..........some could be worse......"Made in China" ring a bell.......

As you can see, I am back and forth on this subject.............You have to weigh it out on your own.

 

I disagree with that generality. My mythical hot rodder was a scrounger and a horse trader. He had more talent than cash. He went to the speed shop to lust after the parts he was saving up money for. My roadster date is 1951. Anything that was available by hook or by crook in 1951 is fair game. Was "midnight auto" in business back then? I know it was alive and well in the early 60's. My guy wasn't a thief but he never insisted on do***entation either. Anything that could be hand made with a torch and a buzz box in the garage, is in play. I never saw what I concider a gold chainer in hot rodding until the hot rodders became pro builders for those with cash and no talent.

I take it as a challenge. Can I do it the way that they did it back then? Am I a good enough scrounger? They had unlimited parts availability compared to todays sources. Am I talented enough to make what I can't afford to buy? When the really old timers see my car, will they say..."that's the way we used to do it"?

Besides that I'm just goofy.

 

when the old timers see my car, they say " i used to have one just like that, but mine was green, and it had four doors, and it was a chevyand it had a straight eight,and---------------------- and you get the picture.
dan

 

On this car the ONLY things not available in 1950 are the dual chamber master cylinder, 12 volt battery, and the electric wiper motor. And those are only there for safety reasons.

Why did I do it? For fun, to prove it to myself that I could. And that this car asked me to do it this way.

 

When I started my pick-up project, I wanted an 'era correct' 40's hotrod. Got a flathead, the 'right' wheels, etc......but once it started to take shape, I got ANSY.....I wanted to hurry up and get to driving it.
So I made a few COMPROMISES.....I couldn't afford to build a PROPER flatty, so I used a SBC and an AT.... Also used an ALT and electronic ign....cause I had it already and it didn't require spending $$$$ I didn't have. Now I have a ratrod.....hahaha (easy guys)
Now that it's driving......I can slowly go back and "add"(or subtract) parts to improve it......Then again I may just leave it, have fun, and build the next one even more CORRECT.....it was just my 1st......

 

It's ****-retentive restorer think...

If you want a 40's rod, search barns and garages till you find an unchanged survivor, then past making it run again, leave it the ****alone.

40's hotrods didn't have repop '32 rails, headlights with three aiming bumps on them or piecrust tires that said "Polyester cord" on the sidewall.

Just build a ****ing hotrod that runs, turns and stops and DRIVE the **** out of it.
No one can tell if you only have NOS bolts on your ride at 80 MPH!

 

no matter what, how hard we try, we will all be 95% ers.

 

heres a subject i have a strong opinion on.
when im building my own personal cars...from now on...i am going to try to make them as true to the period as i can
my personal interest lies from the late 20's-the VERY early 50's
when i built my first car (44c) i didnt know some of the things that i did werent possible to be done then(i havent been into this stuff that long)...some things i did in an order of safety and the fact that i didnt have any money (still dont?)
now that i've had the car on the road for a year and a half it bugs me that certain things are in my eyes "wrong"
i have plans to redo the car and make it have all things that "could have been" back in the period i chose to place it.(if repro is right then it could have been?)
i am planning in the future to build a 32 roadster, 1936 correct mechanical brakes and all that jazz. not for you, not for joe schmoe, for me and only me
most people look at a thought like that as absurd why would someone want to waste effort building something that "everyone KNOWS" is not right
there are myths about flatheads overheating, old frames cracking, mechanical brakes not stopping you....even 40 brakes arent good enough to some people....
i think you just have to build the car to where when you hop in the seat you know....deep down inside...that anywhere you go...any car show any museum, anywhere. that the car you came in with is the car out of all others there that you want to go home with....
when you can say that...then your car is perfect
and if you have the restorer/historian mindset then thats what the car has to be 100% RIGHT!!!!

i build my cars with a picture in my head of a black and white world a time with more ambition and ideas then money.(it takes money now to build as if having no money then)
its not a dare to be different, its not a look at me my cars lower then yours, its not....oh you dont notice my airbag suspension on my roadster so its ok...its whats right, what was right, what always will be right
hot rod FORDS, with FORD motors, and the pedal to the metal! thats what its about for me and thats what it will always be about
happy hot rodding
Zach

 

Those are not the guys whose opinions that I value. I get the same stuff. I just laugh to myself at those guys.

I've known of guys that have gone back to 6 volt from 12 volt and refuse to use anything but gas welding. Mig welders were not available. That's too far for me. I'm goofy not insane. I do respect them for their dedication to an ideal that they have chosen. All I ask is you repect my level of dedication even if you don't agree. To some I'm not dedicated enough and to some I'm a fanatic. To me I'm doing what I like and it's important to me.

Your ****-retentive friend.

 

im workin on a 55-57 styled 31 coupe... im doin it for MEEEE.. i LOVE old things, and im usin as MUCH as possible, newest thing is a 57 poncho rear...

i couldnt care less if its cool, it makes me smile ear to ear just THINKIN about it, and i dont care if it costs more and doesnt have the ever universal SBC, i love EVERY part on it, i searched for em all, and i CANT WAIT

 

Zach, I'm with you 100%... On my '40 Merc, the only "modern" thing is the air
bags in the rear. But I am crazy enough to start planning going back to the
old suspension. Lowered late 40's style, that is. On my '41 Caddy project, I
won't even consider the bags.

Also finding those rare parts you really want and also actually use them on
the car instead of only collecting parts and never use them.

But, as always though, to each his own...

 

exactly!
Zach

 

tommy,
i have nothing but respect for yor good taste in cars and your dedication to your ideas. no disrespect was intended. your roadster is just tops.
dan

 

I know one thing - I wish the guys back in the day weren't so fond of loading their dashes with Stewart Warner guages, cause it sure is destructive to the wallet to try and get a period correct 40's dash!

Our whole hobby is self indulgent, so just do whatever suits you and who cares what anyone else thinks.

 

I have found out that restorations **** because you have to follow somebody else's rules and that applies here. When it was 1950 and some kid with little to no money had to throw together a hot rod with whatever parts he could that was FUN! Living by your own rules and making some stocker into what you saw was better and faster. Is there such thing as the oxy***** "hotrod/custom purist"? It is a hard pill to swallow when laying out your idea for your newest project, but don't let it consume your mind because soon you won't be able to see the forest from the trees and your project may never get finished.
BUILD THE ****ER FROM WHATEVER YOU CAN AND HAVE FUN!

 

The tudor is *****in'...

That's an example of a well-executed goal.

I think the HAMB has always been about standards... That's what I'm talking about. I think it's a really good thing to have standards. The extent you develop your own standards is personal...

For me though, I definately think there an acceptable point to which you can try to disregard standards... Beyond that, and you have a Rat Rod...

My next example of compramizing Period Corectness for common sense is a 32 grill shell...

I could find a gennie shell, pay $$$, and fill it etc... (I think hot rods shouldn't have fillers, that looks like about the first thing the old timers did back then)
Or I could by a repro grill that's filled already and modify it how I see fit...

It would be stupid and selfish to by the gennie shell and cut it up...

 

i say...for my first car ill go as period correct as i can with out taking four years...my second ill spend more time searching for the parts...since ill already have one to drive.

 

I have seen it[TRAD/PERIOD CORRECTNESS] end up being dangerously close to restoring....
a pastime I loathe....
I have decide my next car will be built only to suit me and just drive it....I may never be able to show it here ,but that is Ok too......

 

Okay, you wanted real examples with explanations so try this. I went for a period correct 'Munsters' era hotrod. Early 60s cuz that's what floats my boat.


On the 'real/vintage' side...
Steel 30 body and frame
'57 Olds motor/'53 Dual Range Hydro
J-2 carbs on vintage Offy manifold
Chromed headers because I grew up knowing that headers are chromed and nothing less.
'57 Olds Dash (minus 14 inches)
'62 Olds steering wheel
'58 Chevy taillights
Tornado dual headlight stands
generator, because they work just fine
'37 Ford steering box, spindles, backing plates
vintage hairpins (came with the body)
chromed drilled I-beam axle (lucky find)
60 Desoto hubcaps
Self made grill insert
Mallory dual point ignition (because points can be fixed by the side of the road well enough to get home.)
Model A seat with new upholstery

On the repro side:
filled '32 steel grill shell (sold original '32 commercial and ended up with less work and more money)
beehive oil filter (cheaper - looks same as original)
Appleton headlight buckets with Lucas spotlights (cheaper - looks same as originals)
40 Ford brake drums (cheaper - easier to find)
Steel 15" smoothies (cheap, can't be seen under hubcaps)
Universal whitewall tires (who wants to drive on 50 year old rubber?)
Gennie shifter. (easy bolt on - looks old style)
covered front shocks (works like new, looks like old)
Pete and Jakes rear model A spring and ladder bars (looks like old style, more durable than vintage, and easy to find)

Not period correct:
8" Ford rear from a '72 Maverick (couldn't afford quickchange, its the right width, nobody sees it)
'69 Mustang dual master cylinder (safer)
Peugot gas tank unknown year.(You wouldn't believe how perfectly it fits behind the seat!) (ten bucks)
'69 Mustang radiator (triple core for that big olds and its shorter for channeling)

That's about it...so is it period correct? It is enough for me! I fulfilled my goal to the best ability of my wallet.

 

we SHOULD be our own worst credit atleast,
self critisism is an perfect road to perfection!

 

Period correctness is a fairly loose concept. Having lived through 5 decades of hot rodding, I know first hand that in any given period, there are about 4 distinct "periods" of hotrods running around at the same time. The older guys hotrods all bear many traces of what they remember as being a hot-rod when they were first getting into the hobby 25 years earlier. The young guys are building rods based on what their concept of "current" rodding is, but they are heavily influenced by the older guys and the current rod magazines. Some of the younger guys are building what they see as "cutting edge" rods for today, and not taking any advice from the "older guys". And some of the builders are building what they see as "outside the box" versions of hotrods, hoping to have something unique that may start a brand new trend. Yes, there are some "period indicators" based on what was commonly available to build a rod in that particular time period, but to try and nail it down so tightly as to become obsessive about "period corectness" is an exercise in futility.

 

like when you decide to stop hacking up a "original " to save the sacred cow and the next guy($) gets it grinds it up ,makes hamburger and burns it "past well done" covered in **** sauce and then says it's tasty....???????
who's right?????
find what you want to use ..and use it
repro - n.o.s. -original -late model- ????
its hot rodding ..instead of not rodding

pick a look make it safe and drive it ...

hope my grand kids wills say
" gramps built the coolest rides back in the 2000's"

ok
lets get ready to rumble
paperdog

 

I have a '30 willys roadster body that can sit on those es*** rails...

 

I don't take it personally. It's funny you mentioned the roadster. That is the least period correct car that I have. It's got an ugly alternator and the thing I detest the most...an electric helper fan. That's why I keep the hood closed. I'm a hypocrite.

I think that this is what this discussion is all about...where each of us draws our own line. I may not reach my goals but that shouldn't stop me from trying. I can tell you from experience that if I settle for a less than desired part when building a car, it's usually there for the duration. I never seem to get back to changing it to what I really want.

 

I tried to stay "period correct" to what a hotrod was in 1962 when I was in high school. No real radical body mods, except a shortened bed. A 32 grill shell, because that was the most sought after look at the time. Lots of chrome on a small block Chev engine, (although a flat head would also have been "period correct" in 1962-63). I ran full fenders, because they were "street legal" in 62 in Ontario, Canada----you wouldn't have gotten a "roadworthy certificate" without fenders then. I preferred the baby moons and trim rings with painted steel wheels, however, the rich guys were running 5 spoke Cragars and Keystones. wide whites were still very popular on rods at that time, but many guys were running blaclwall tires or "redline" tires in '63.---Bottom line is, as I said in an earlier post, there were many variables that were accepted in any particular "period".

 

I was working at Greenfield Village in '83 when I watched some twit pull a '28 A Roadster out of a trailer, roll it over to his space, and then spend an hour and a half cleaning the dirt outta the tire treads.

that's obsession and it's destructive.

My DD is a limited production collectible car; the majority of 'em are treated like the twit's trailer queen. Meanwhile, I'm on engine #2 and trans #3, 'cause it's driven like its stolen.

That's the range, man - afraid to get tires dirty vs. the daily rag. FWIW, I think folks get all hinky about period correctness when the car is treated less like a car and more like an 'investment'. I've owned a lot of older cars, and it's the rare car that I lose money on when I move on -period correct or not.

Specific to rails:

There are scads more Deuce rails out there than there are Deuce bodies; I wouldn't worry about cutting up a good set.

 

I enjoy cars......that are built by creative people. I dislike rap music, Britney Spears, and cold french fries at mcdonalds.

 

One thing I see in this thread is an underlying disdain for restoration. Something I made a decent living doing for over 20yrs. It's also pretty rewarding as long as it's approached with the right mindset. I restored for compe***ion in nat'l venues such as Pebble Beach and Meadowbrook. Variable standards to be sure. A "perfect" resto may not get recognized at all. Now there's hotrod cl***es at these shows for the well heeled collectors who travel the ranks of traditional rods.

Period correct might just as well be considered restoration. Looking for old stuff, renewing it, and putting it to use in the project...restoration. And nothing at all wrong with that. We all have a need to see "how they did it" based on what we like. In the end it's the overall look and style that many want to bring out. Stance, wheel/tire combos, colors, accessories, all get it done whether it's on real rails or new, OEM or new body, or new Vintiques. It's the look.

By some standards I should customize with a 'cety torch and lead only since that's what "they" did. I'll pick my spots on that score and probably, no, certainly will, use a tig and mig welder in my build. I do plan to use lead where needed but more because I hate bondo. Tradition follows many paths. The way I see it using all OEM and period correct restored parts in a build is another form of restoration. The esscense of traditional rodding to me is more the dedication to individual taste and execution mixed with respect for styles of the past. Chrome reverse instead of 20s. Tri power instead of injection. Naugahyde instead of suede. And all of this can be new and traditional as can be. If you really get **** about it you need to do some **** paint work at times like alkyd enamel or nitrocellulose lacquer. And so the basis of the discussion, where does it end? It doesn't...it begins when you get started. Listen to the voice in your head and do what you wish.

 

I admire anybody who does the whole ****-retentive period perfection thing, it takes a level dedication and perseverance and knowledge that few of us have.

Same time, I am personally willing to compromise in the interest of safety, reliability and/or driveability. My fendered A coupe has a 700R4, front disks, coil overs, electric wiper motor, Pertronix; visually, tho, I think it looks "correct" and you'd have to snoop to identify the post-63 bits. My '32 will be more stringent, but I will certainly be running a modern trans (T5) and pertronix.

Non-period-correctness in a "traditional" car ****s when the anachronism becomes distracting. It's like what the Supreme Court justice said about obscenity: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

What really gets me is the growing number of "Krylon-backdated" 80s cars: take a tubbed ProStreet kroozer with a tunnel ram or BDS blower, paint it flat black with red wheels and voila! You're traditional OlSkool...the latest in the newest au courant!