Chopping a Bubble Top: Hypothosis

So I took my broken windshield (which many of you saw in my last thread) out today. I also had the foresight to take my rear gl*** out before something could go wrong to that too!

Once all the gl*** was out my buddy, who owns the shop I keep/work on the car at, walks through and says "sweet, I'll get the sawzall, we can chop it now."

I've wanted the chop the car for quite some time, but chopping a 59/60 GM car isn't simple. The metal work isn't frightening to me at all, it's leaving gl*** openings that will accept cut down stock gl***. I explained there would be no chop chop until I had a fool proof way to rework the front and back gl*** that would keep it from breaking.

Now I talked to John D'agostino briefly at the Portland Roadster Show about his 59 Cadillac dubbed "Elvis." A little intimidated I didn't ask as many questions as I should have. He did give me one possibly monumental hint, Tilt the windshield so you only cut off the corners.

I took this to mean the center bottom to center top height would remain the same, but the tilt in the pillars would shorter the sides... If you hold a piece of paper in a semi-circle shape and test it that way it makes sense.... But that's still not enough fool proofness for me, because I've got a lot of fool to go around.

So tonight, laying in bed I had what might amount to another monumental thought. Make a round rod perimeter of the stock windsheild lip. Tie center top to center bottom with a central rod, so the height can't change. Then cut the bottom corners lose, turn the bottom rod upward and retack to the side pieces, cut off the excess bottom and side rod. This should in theory make a perfect template of the edge of your gl*** once it is actualy cut... Also, it will give you a template for marking the gl*** to fit exactly in the opening....


I even confused myself, so here is a side view drawing of my theory. So if anyone see's a flaw in this theory speak now or forever hold your pease.


So the car is chopped now. The technical doings of it worked out great. Everything came together nicely. I was able to fallow the template I made of the windshield very easily. When I got it all back together I was able to break my junk windshield in half (so it would be easier to work with) and set it in the opening. The hight of it was perfect, with a pie shaped portion in the corner hanging out over the fender, obviously that's where it gets cut... Everyone else seems a bit obsessive over the gl*** in this thing as if it hasn't been done before. But when all was said and done I'd do it again exactly the same way.

 

I don't know about holding any peas... but yes, it is correct. I have a friend who chopped a '60 buick hdtp, and it was accomplished exactly like you described, by simply laying it back and trimmim off the lower corners.

Brian

 

Did he have to split the roof and add a section? Or was he able to lay the rear gl*** down just the same?

 

I am yet to chop a B-top, but I spoke with the guy who built that beautiful dark blue '60 that I think had a carson top that was going around the custom world about 10 years ago. I think the car was out of Flint MI area and it made Detroit autorama and a couple of magazines... anyway I asked him how he chopped it and he said he just let the windshield into the body and did not cut the gl***. "let" meaning a trough or slot of some kind was built into the cowl allowing the windshield to live lower in the cowl..... I cannot forget about this as I think it is a great idea and lots better than cutting gl***, as long as it works. It would seem like the main thing to do would be ensure the body stays away from the gl*** and/or does not twist load the gl*** and break it.
I have toyed with chopping my '61 Brookwood, but want to get it running and a few miles on it first. Keep us posted on how this chop goes!!! cool stuff... very cool.

 

The problem with sinking the windshield/back gl*** on these cars is that they are wider around at the bottom. So the gl*** is amazingly hard to get in. Then once they are in, you can't get to the rubbers to cut them to get them back out again. Unless of course if you just want to chop the car 1", which would set it ontop of the inner cowl structure. But honestly, if someone risks that much money and time to chop a bubble top... I'd hope they'd atleast do a noticable amount. I'm content with having my gl*** cut, we have a guy who does all out gl*** and he's yet to mess anything up. I simply don't want to cut the car until I know wether or not the roof will need lengthening.

 

Ideally, by tilting the gl*** inward, you should be able to make up the difference so that the roof will not need to be stretched.

It's one of those things that are really scary and hard to contemplate, but once you commit and start cutting, things will reveal themselves and start to make sense.

It's good that you are putting so much forethought into it, but at some point you just have to do it to figure out the final details. It will reveal itself.

 

Yeah. I'm trying to really plan it out because I can't afford to buy a donor car for a new roof and I'd hate to send this thing back to the junkyard.... I guess if I screw it up I can make one *****in carson top for it.

 

get the gl*** cut first ,then it wont be so imtimadating.then chop it to the gl***.

 

Brian, you said a friend did it....I just have one issue with cutting the corners, and tilting it. Doesn't that change the "angle of approach" of the top of the windshield, so that it might be hard to sit it back into the widow gasket? Or does it look awkward that the plane of the gl*** doesn't flow into the roof shape? Would the change also affect the way the stainless trim sits on the gl***? Or is the change in angle so little that it doesn't matter? (Is it Jerry's car you're talking about, that was a killer car! He 'may' have done more surgery to it, as he was a master of sheet metal!)
I usually do things the hard way, but in contemplating chopping my budy Nate's 58 Ford, I first thought to just cut off the top of the windshield the required amount, following the same shape as the original. Then build out the top of the roof to meet the new shape of the gl***, and hopefully, the stainless trim has enough extra (the overlap) to still fit across the wider top. If not, add a piece. It's easier to work with sheet metal than to try to re-shape a piece of gl***!

 

bring your old gl*** over and I'll trim it for a template. there will be lot of difference when you lay it back. the best example I've seen was a 60 cad at Paso last year. I've never chopped one before but thought laying it down would be the best approach
Jim Arnold
"The Old Car Gl*** Guy"
Oregon City Or.
503-519-3443

 

My old gl*** had a um... 2x6 fall through it. Near the bottom in the center. Though we were careful to not break it up more when we took it out, the weight of it's self pretty much folded it in half when we lifted it off the car... Id love to get a new one cut before I chop it, but a new windshield isn't in my budget right now and we are trying to get the body done by the end of the month so we can pull the frame, notch the rear, install bag mounts and send it to powder coat. So I don't really have the time to wait on the money for a new windshield either...The idea being that the car is re***embled and running to drive to vegas and paso this year.

 

I know that D'Angostino knows his **** and probably some of some one elses. Or he knows a lota more **** than he should????

But here's another option and its been done and redone so I know its doable. Try sinking the windshield into the cowl. You clip the frame loose from the body and drop it down complete. No gl*** to cut or reshape. Just a thought.

 

Someone mentioned that earlier and I explained to them that it's handy for not cutting the gl***. But you had better hope that you never crack a windshield because it won't come out without completely smashing the windshield and removing it in pieces. If you scroll up you'll see why.

But then I was thinking about it as I was cutting the A pillars on the car. I glanced down and notice the wiper arms are only about an inch below the window frame inside cowl. So in order to sink the windshield in there, you have to relocate the entire wiper system. The motor, the connecting arms, the actual pivot arms. Once you move the pivot arms, then you have to move the molded openings for them in the cowl grate... Yikes, what a can of worms.

 

Not really sure what all his hardtop involved.. as it was a convertible originally, and retained the convertible header with the liftoff top (which was made from the roof of a 2-dr sedan btw..) On his wagon, with the way the gl*** goes back into the top, I can see where the point you brought up could come into play.. if only I had known what questions to ask..




Brian

 

Well, I welded my doors shut today and took the dive.

First thing I did was break off a corner of my old windshield and made a round rod template of it, Then I cut it, removed two inches and used the windshield to get the proper angle again.

Once that was done, I made some marks and cut cut....

I set the top back on, checked some things, then flipped it again to make the two halfs line up with a cleaner gap. After that.... The storm out side got really bad and the lights started flickering so I stopped working.

Tomorrow I'll tack the front half of the A pillars, make a relieve cut on the inside of the door jamp near the corner of the windows, grab the B Pillars and pull them back until they land right where they came from. The relief cut will hopefully let the the top stretch out a little and lay back. Also, the A pillars will lay back that extra little bit that I need to get them perfect. Then some quick buzzes with the welder and I'm done.







P.S. Sorry for not thumbnailing, they are too big for thumbnails and I can only get them so small not having a photo editing program.

 

Check this out. Chopped '59 Impala.

http://www.xframechevy.com/chevy.asp?L=364

Car was on eBay some time ago, unfortunatly I don't remember who did the work.

 

that car was in one of the magazines a while ago. The guy who built it went through 9 windshields to get it right... They kept cracking on him. I don't know how much he chopped it though. The window opening height looks comparible to mine, then the b pillars look much shorter. He got a great look out of it. I did mine 2 1/4 in the fron and 1 in the back. It's subtle, just gets rid of the camal hump look.

 

Yeah I think he mentioned all those windsheild attempts in his eBay auction. Notice the lack of wing windows.... i suspect this car does not have side-gl*** that rolls up, unless he has made a channel in the A pillar so it could come straight up. Something else to consider for anyone who has an El Camino or Wagon... since these and the Sedans all had a roof that was taller than the hard-top and convertibles, you could chop the car by whataver that amount is (inch or 2?) and use a stock hard-top windshield. This would be subtle, yet bichen! Plus now that the rear gl*** is reproduced for the '59-60 El Caminos, which is no doubt regular laminate gl***, not tempered like original so you could cut it.

DS

 

I noticed the lack of wing windows. But I don't think he could channel the pillar to get the windows to come up, because they are still tilted a little bit, so the top of the pillar is farther out. He'd have to remake the guides inside to tilt the side gl*** level at the last minute. I'll be reworking my wings to fit. You know as good as I do that windows are a must have in washington!

 

Yep, windows are a must! When you lower the top I suppose the window tracks have to lean in further as well so you dont have a big gap at the top edge. Also, what about the stainless A pillar moulding? Will that require a pie-cut, section and tig weld job? Yikes! That aughta test your Tig and metal finishing skills!

 

With my wing windows, I plan to cut the forward side of the wingfree from the bottom of the wing window frame, then I'll cut the top loose from the track. So I'll have just the loop cut free. Then I'll reinstall the frame with just the track sticking up. Shut the door a little ways and then trim off the top to allow it the shut the rest of the way. Then I'll line up the loop and trim the bottom off and also the excess that hangs past the window track (due to the new angle pushing it back). Thank god for stainly less, some sanding and buffing and it'll look like new. A couple stainless tack welds in some discrete corners and it's ready for gl***.


As for the window trim. As I'm sure you know the pillar trim wraps around the corner and then overlaps the lower piece. My plan is to copy the brake from the lower arm of that corner piece on the upper arm, and simply trim the remaining upper arm down and slide it behind the corner piece. Since I didn't chop the car drasticaly, the angle didn't change enough to require pie cutting it. If it had, I would have split the angle and made it look like a 45 degree miter cut, and I still wouldn't have welded it. Stock trim has cuts and overlaps, it's just a matter of making yours seem stock too.

 

Isn't the wing window post made of pot metal, with a regular steel frame around the gl*** itself? Can pot-metal be cut and welded and still retain enough strength?

 

The base is yes, but the window is completely surrounded by stainless which is screwed to it. Where I'll be cutt and welding is on the stainless portions. The window track is screwed to the base and to the loop to make up one side. the loop and bottom frame are one piece which is screwed to the bottom.

 

2 years ago, I ran into a guy at Goodguys Hershey that chopped a '59 El Camino - goes by the name Chop Chop Bob.

Here is his website: http://www.angelfire.com/mech/chopchopbob/

Yours looks like it is coming along good - look forward to seeing more of it!

 

well it's too late now.. but especially in a car like that you need to cut the gl*** first, then build the top to fit.

Gambino said it first, but nobody seemed to listen.

you can cut, bend, weld, grind, shrink and stretch metal. all you can do to gl*** is cut or break it.

guys who build cars for D'agustino make a metal template of the gl*** and have a whole new custom windshield made for more $$ than most of us spend for a whole car.

 

I made a round rod perimeter template of the window lip, then chopped that, then used it to reference the gl*** to ***ure that shape could be cut from it. Then I chopped the car to match that template. So all I have to do is take the template with the uncut gl***, lay the teplate over the gl*** and tell them to take off all the extra.

And since the windshield can't get any shorter in the center (because it gets narrower the farther up it goes) I made sure that the center distance was the same by adjusting the lean of the window opening in the a pillars.

 

I'm curious to see how this comes out. I was chatting with Oz at a Sacramento Autorama a few years back and he pointed out that a few of these high dollar cars just sank the window into the cowl and ended up with huge rubber around the windshield. It looked outta place. I like your idea better. A few years ago there was an article in Rod n Custom on chopping these bubbletops. PM Shortbus (rick amado) he may have some extra copies or at least tell you what month/year the issue was.

speedy

 

I've commented back on a lot of guys who suggested I sink the windshield. Each time someone says it I cringe a little bit thinking about how much stuff has to be moved and changed and altered! And I have come to concider that to be the wrong way. It really wasn't that hard to make a template and figure out the shape of the windshield before hand. It's just a matter of making a frame and taking some nots of a couple measurements that can't change and that's that.

I heard about the article and I think they sank it in that issue. But either way it's too late to change how I did it......

 

Wow, that's incredibly brave. That car has something like 14 foot of front and rear gl*** to work with.

I can't wait to see the finished product and hear your comments on if you'd of improved this or that, maybe gone a different direction.

Good luck!

 

It's going to be a while still until I am ready to put gl*** in it. I have a lot of other little things to take care off first. The body still has to come off so I can get the frame and suspension/rear end poweder coated and then there is paint and what not...