Thought I would pick your brains. Im thinking about building a 37 Plymouth Gasser, more of a driver not an all out race car . A friend has a rebuilt 392 Hemi for $9,000. That sets me back (Way Back)on finishing the rest of the car. But that would be cool (its a HEMI). The boss where I work just offered me 3 running 413 wedges for $850. each. after I told him what I was thinking about doing and showing him the pictures. 2 running old drag motors from back in the 70s,the third is stock untouched. Im unsure how good he just guaranteed they would run didn't even know he liked cars, said when his son lost intrest in racing so did he. I know the ramchargers use to run these, if I remember correct. Question: what should I do and what can I do with a 413 if I go that direction. I dont know much about Chrysler, more of a chevy Guy. any help would be appreciated.
413's had MAD (read Huge amouts of) torque. Only surpassed by the 426 hemi. I would say go with the wedge just cause I'm seeing hemi's EVERYWHERE nowadays. Plus its cheaper, so you can make it faster than the hemi. But really either way you go you cant go wrong!
Wedges are badass, but the wow factor isn't there. Are you trying to impress or go fast? I guess that is the question.
Key words from your post: "more of a driver not an all out race car." Get the 413 motors, piece together a runner, and get after it. If you want a car that can cruise, and travel, and dig when required, an RB wedge will get it done. Not to mention better parts availability, drivetrain adaptability, and several very viable alternatives (426, 440) available if you break something or want to upgrade. Besides, it ain't like they were never used in drag cars.......
413 make loads of power and personally i like them better than the hemis becuase the distributer is in front. lots of speed parts availible for them too with factory high performance engineering.
WEDGE! The 413 is almost unheard of these days, but easy to build up. It is a baby 426 and will bear no shame in the face of a hemi.
Wedges are ok but NOTHING yells cool more than a hemi...tell him to keep the wedge and buy a hemi! Ever thought of using 354 hemi, they look almost identical but sell for WAY cheaper & make good power!!!...JMHO....hemi35
The whole idea of a gasser on the street is to be obnoxious and out of a comic book, therefore I'd go with the most obnoxious motor.
I remember my mother buying a 62 Chrysler Newport w/413 4bbl& 4doors,that car beat a friends 351 Mach 1,he was so pissed he has a 4bbl,headers,3.90 posi out in & beat him again.I had alot of problems coming out of the hole (peg leg)so we'd try racing most people from 10mph. Finally broke ring gear & causing front yoke to break in 1/2 & bent d/shaft too.
If the hemi is rebuilt as a stock engine, it might have the looks but not the 'oomph', although in a lightweight car that's moot. But it's way easier and cheaper to get more power out of a 413. Only thing with a 413 is piston-availability. It's either the stock-slugs or the custom made ones. Other than that, every speedpart of a 440 will also bolt onto the 413, so I probably would go for the 413 aswell. You might consider looking for a crossram-intake with the carbs mounted offset to each other on the engine.
You could probably build up 3 413's for the cost of 1 hemi. I've always felt the cross ram intake and carb setup is outragous looking and would love to have one. Cost might be something to think about if youre putting it in something thats going to get some abuse. I would rather blow up a cheaper 413 than $9k worth of hemi. I know you said driver but I think if it comes together, just driving it here and there at the speed limit just won't cut it.
It is hard to beat the cool factor of a hemi. That being said I think I would still go for the 413 and up the cool factor with a set of max wedge intakes and carbs, you know the intakes that put the carbs dang near on the fenderwells.
I would like to build the car as period correct (60s) gasser just with the SAFETY and comfort of today. Although there are not many Plymouths to go by. Would like to be able to smoke a rice rocket, or a 5.0 mustang but still cruise to a show 2 hours away. (guess I want the best of both worlds if possible.)
Wedge, Dare to be different than every other cookie cutter car that is being put together. ok the hemi is no where near close to being as common as a small block chevy but is getting more common place. yeah a hemi is cool , but when it breaks and its sitting cause it will cost huge money to fix , who is going to see it then. Why not try looking for an injection set up for the 413 that would up the wow factor!
Definitely the wedge motor! Especially, if this fellow guarantees that they all wil run. If so, buy them all, select the best of the three and sell the remaining two. I'm certain that you can get your money back with no problem and, in fact, will probably make a few bucks to boot. If the race engine has any factory go-fast stuff, the sky is the limit on what that stuff could be worth. Cross rams with matching exhaust manifolds are just stupid money now. So, all things considered, give me the wedges, not a wedgie, the wedges, please!!!
I like em both. I have two hemis, a 413 long ram and a 383 6 pack all in my arsenal. The 413 is probably the way to go. Cheap is good! My stock 413 4bbl was 360 horse and with the long rams bumps it to 390 out of the box. Doesn't take much more to bring it into mid 400's. If your going to spend $9000 on a rebuilt 392 you might as well buy a BRAND NEW 426 hemi for a little bit more. Oh yeah, I also have lots of stuff that I would gladly sell you way overpriced. $9000 seems pretty steep for a 392. Must be gold plated or have a 17-1/2 carb manifold or tri-y-quad deluxe headers or something.
For the cost of one Hemi, you can have a complete running car with a wedge, have a spare engine and sell one.
I like wedge motors, RB stuff is pretty much interchangeable. You should check out the drag motors though, they get big money for max Wedge stuff, especially factory crossram intakes ,max wedge heads (easy to identify, no heat crossover) and factory ram exhaust manifolds.
Grab the 413's they are getting rare and if you find those long cross ram intakes which were on the 62's they have a unique look on there own and had great performance as well.
On the topic of 413s there where alot of these put in moble homes and dump trucks way up into the 70s, which is a testament to there pulling power, i read like 500ft pd. of torque at 2800 Rpm they do nothin but flat pull, but beware the dump truck and moble home motors are a bit diffrent than car motors, they have a diffrent head & waterpump than your regular car motor. the waterpump is a set up with the truck heads that allows watering directly through the heads and block at the same time, (it also ads about 100ib of usless metal to your motor and makes a dodge motor look like a ford BB they look odd LOL) unlike the car motor that waters through block up through the heads ( i.e what we think of as normal mopar) The good news is regular car heads and water pump are a direct interchange (not sure on the intake) just make sure the water holes are clear in the block where the old truck pump had the car watering holes blocked off. On the availbility of pistons, Remember your early 413s are thick walled so they can be bored alot. to that end and with the lack of available 413 pistons if my memory is correct you can bore a 413 .70 (70thousandths) and make it accept 426 Wedge pistons which are a bit more available i hope this helps you a bit
Most of this is wrong. The 413-1 truck motor is the same as a normal 413 passenger car motor except for a few minor things. Smaller camshaft, less compression, heavy duty valves, and on some mid 70's motors - a differenent set of heads (casting ends in 213) that have larger water jackets. The truck water pump housing is different, so you just throw it away and use a car one. All 413's have forged cranks. Personally, I can buy running 440's for $600 all day long. I would go with a 440 since its cheaper to build, and has a lot more hard parts availability and looks identical to a 413. Pistons and rings are expensive for a 413, but everything else is the same as a 440. The best way is to get a nice cheap late 70's 440 (I just picked up one from a 78' NY'r for $600, complete with tranny) and rebuild that. It will have 452 head on it which are very good heads. The block is almost as strong as the earlier motors - there is no such thing as a thinwall block - they just lowered the amount of nickle in the iron. The low nickle blocks still have more nickle in them than the high nickle chevy blocks! The late 70's 440's have the heavy 6-pack rods in them, but a cast crank. This setup is good to over 500hp, but I would swap in a forgef crank...like from a 413 or early 440. I am strongly thinking of picking up the $350 71' 400 from the local mopar parts dealer, and the $75 forged 440 crank that is already 30/30 but crack free, and building a 470ci stroker. If you want a really cheap killer motor, go buy a 383. They are usually dirt cheap. I bought two of them a few years ago for $100 for both with extra heads. I am also thinking of trying this. Its about $1000 cheaper than the 470 stroker and ends up at about 450 cubes. 3.90 stroke, BBC aftermarket long rods - 6.535", and an off the shelf BBC flattop piston with 1.52" compression height. SRP has them for $499 for a top quality aftermarket piston, the rods are $299 for good aftermarket rods. I would top it with a set of template ported 452 casting heads with the mopar 509 cam and make about 500hp on pump gas.
When you compare the two motors, the ONLY thing the hemi has going for it is the big valve covers that say "chrysler firepower".
RacerRick has the good info. By the way, look at "old kid's" current postcount.... he's right on the money... :cooleyes: Go get those 413's...
Shakey, This is ment as no disrepect to you or your car, because Ive seen your videos, pics etc... and think your car is cool as hell. But I am tired of going to car shows, Gasser reunions etc... and seeing the same body styles Willys coupes, sedans, chevys 55,6,7s all done with the same motors just in different colors. If I remember looking at some of my old drag racing Mags there were more than just Willys and Chevy being raced back in the day.
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