There aren't many metalshapers up here, so here I am. I am a metalshaping sculptor, specializing in marine animals www.metallicmarineart.com I don't do a whole lot of work on cars, but a lot of the work is the same - I took Fay Butler's course this spring and really dig the power hammer work. I recently finished a power hammer centered around an old shear frame and using the Metalcraft kit (see attached photo). I can see that I would like a little more horsepower (and am clearly limited by throat height). I am looking to upgrade and since the yoders just aren't around (especially in Alaska), I am looking to make a hammer out of 1" plate. Anyone have thoughts on design? I am planning on basing the design on the yoder, but wonder if there are any improvements over the cone clutch? Thanks.
Hey Mark. Not to run you off or anything, but you'll find a LOT more info/discussion about hammers, wheels and whatnot at www.metalmeet.com or www.metalshapers.org
Yeah, I am on those forums too. I was interested in a lot of the discussions going on here and thought I could pick up a bit more. I am enjoying the sculpture, but I am interested in working on some new projects too. Lots of old bushplanes up here that seem to get into a lot of fender benders and could use a metalshaper. I've been in to cars for a long time too and would like to start a project or two..... Thanks
That is prettty cool. I live in Fairbanks. It can be a challenge sometimes to get what you need. To bad you are a little far to visit.
Well I get around most of Alaska and the Pac. northwest pretty frequently, so if I'm on the move, maybe I'll post to see if I can see other folks shops. If anyone is ever in Kodiak.... I've been talking with Fay Butler about doing a short course up here next fall, so if that is a shorter trip then to MA, it may be a good opportunity to see AK. mw
Hey Mark, I beleve Stan Carter, on Metalshapers, was workin on a disc clutch set-up. Doesn't that bad boy hammer the piss outa the shop floor slab? Any draw backs to the Cal Smith hammer parts? Killer lookin hammer, btw! Swankey Devils C.C.
Hi Mark, Congratulations on your metal shaping hammer, that is a valiant effort and a nice compact machine. I have a blacksmiths shop and over the years have had 3 spring hammers and completely rebuilt my first. One of my hammers could forge 2"bar. My suggestions to you are; you probably don't need more H.P. You do need to refine your set up. 1. From the ground up (always a good place to start) the anvil mounting plate is bolted to the frame, this is not enough, the force needs to be transmitted to the floor. One way to do this is to mount the anvil onto a solid billet of steel or cast iron which is bolted to a base plate which is bolted to the floor and the hammer. If you don't have solid fill a hollow section with molten lead or similar, you need about 14 times the weight of the top block and it's moving parts. Note the use of bolts, welding is not good enough. 2. The top block should not touch the anvil block when the machine is at rest, you need to adjust the gap so when you place your hands each side of the top block and push down hard and with all your strength get the block to touch the anvil. This is directly related to the capacity of the spring, this next bit of advise is difficult as I would need to see the hammer working to gauge the effiency of the spring. My first thoughts are there are not enough leaves and the spring is too short. ( the spring is there to provide a whip action ), the crank drives the top block down, when the block passes through the neutral zone of the spring it places the spring in tension on it's way to the anvil, the revolving crank pulls the top block up at the same time the tension on the spring releases and whips the block up, on the way down the stored energy is released when the top block hits the anvil thus increasing the power of the blow ( quite a lot). 3. The lobe on the end of the drive shaft is too small, minimum diameter is 12" and the weight should be 50Lb's plus. Our first hammer had a gym lifting weight modified to suit. This will give you the mass you need to deliver power to the top block. You will also increase the height the top block rises but you can adjust this on the flywheel from almost dead centre to the very edgeof the flywheel. 4. The cone clutch is a simple but very effective piece of technology, a well set up clutch will do this little hammer very well. There are two ways to set up the clutch, 1. A fiber strip is fitted to the cone receiver when the cone engages it makes contact with the entire surface. 2. Tapered and curved wooden blocks 4 No. are attached to the cone receiver, we found the blocks easier to set up and they are just as efficient. Your other option is to purchase a little Air Hammer, they are available from China and a little 25Lb unit may serve you well, they can forge 1.1/2 bar and they go like a machine gun, they also have a bigger throat but you have more clearspace. good luck Phil, Fe26 from sydney australia
Thanks guys for the tips on the clutch (or not clutch). I'll definitely check all those out before I decide on anything. As far as the metalcraft hammer, I think it is a pretty good value. That being said, I used one with their frame and it had quite a lot of flex in it and wanted to jump around a bit. I've heard that the frames don't need to be too stiff, but why would you want to put energy into the frame moving around instead of the work piece? I know there are some plans out there for "hot rodding" the metalcraft frame and I think that would help out. If I were starting out from scratch on a metalcraft hammer kit, I think I'd make the whole thing out of something more sturdy - the down side is that you'd have to pay for it. Since my frame is cast, it doesn't move around much. It did walk a bit at first, but didn't flex much between the arms. I put some rubber under the feet and it stays put now and the shop floor it pretty much untouched. The other issue I had with the metalcraft hammer was with the pulley mechanism to tighten the belt and engage the eccentric. As the belt heats up with use, it gets stickier in the motor pulley and the power applied to the eccentric becomes less controlable and eventually won't stop until you turn off the motor. I've been spraying the motor pulley with wd40 and that cures the problem temporarily and seems to work. The whole setup isn't that controlable - which is why I am looking for an alternative. Again, it is a good setup for the cost and I think that anything else would be much more elaborate and costly, so it is a good alternative. -Mark
Phil, Thanks a lot for all of the info. A couple of questions: 1. What are your thoughts about a removable strut from the lower anvil to the base so you could get clearance below the arm if necessary, but have it in place for better power transfer most of the time. I can see where lead would be best, but is sand a suitable alternative (cost and ease of putting it in)? Wow, 14 times the weight, that will be a challenge. 2. I had wondered about the spacing. The directions for the metalcraft hammer weren't all that clear, but it basically specified a gap between the upper and lower die when the eccentric was centered which resulted in them hitting when the hammer was at rest and the eccentric was positioned down. I'll adjust my spacer and see how it does with a small gap on the downstoke. 3. These changes probably are a bit much for this hammer, but this is great info for planning the next one. 4. I had also explored going with hydraulics and eliminating the need for a clutch, but they get spendy quick. I'll see what I can come across for a clutch. I know someone out there is casting yoder cone clutches, so I can always go with that. Thanks for all the info. great resource here. -Mark
Mark, The removable strut is a good idea, take it out when you Tap Tap, put it in when you Bang Bang ( the hammer not the girlfriend). Sand is'nt heavy enough, if you have a metal shop close by you might ask them for the slugs out of their punch machine,or the local shooting club for the spent bullets, not the cartridges. You'll be surprised when you get the spacing right between the blocks. You,re right about the hydraulics being X,ee and also not neccessary, too slow and too powerful, and no matter how good you're fitting skills are somehow everything gets covered in oil. I like the frame, they should be as rigid as possible. Just like hotrods all that energy and power you develop ends up in one place, either in the small area of the tyre that contacts the road, or in your case the area between the blocks. Good luck with the clutch. Phil,Fe26
Yeah, the lead is tough to come by around here being that on an island, everything is expensive to ship here, especially when it weighs a lot. I'll start the search though. I'll post when I change the die spacing and see how it performs. Any thoughts on the height of the dies for comfortable working without blowing out the elbows? Is the leaf spring/strapping style still considered the best way to go? I was also wondering about the two styles for where the dovetail goes in the drive mechanism. I think the older Yoders have the dovetail after the leaf spring, so the spring is moving in a rotating motion (like the metalcraft hammer) and the newer style has the dovetail attached to the spring component itself so that the spring only goes up and down and the connecting rod is the only rotating part. I am guessing that since they evolved to the latter, it is better and it makes sense to that it would transfer more energy if the spring hit perpendicular to the workpiece all the time rather than hitting at an angle. Thoughts anyone? Corrections to my history? Thanks for all the advice.
Hi Mark, It's hard to say just what your'e block spacing should be ( ours is about 1.1/2 but a bigger hammer). If the top block does a little bounce after it hits then the clearance is too small. This is called choking. The spring set up is OK, that has'nt changed since the 1860's, a static spring position is superior to revolving, and safer too. I'm not sure what you mean by die height, if it's working height, generally, a forger will have the bottom block low at mid thigh height, while a tin smith would have the bottom block at about trouser belt height. So much depends on the type of job you are working on. You know you're in trouble when you have a hammer for each job you do, from there it grows like topsy, then you hire staff, then you take on more work, then the machines break down so you buy bigger machines, then you hire more staff, and in your quiet moments ask yourself, when did I become a slave? spending most of my time in the office while there is fun to be had in the forge. Phil
Phil, Thanks for all of the advice. That will get me on the right road, I think, but I'm sure I'll be back for more. I'll post pictures when I get started. I can certainly see how the progression goes. I know I started working in the shop when I felt like it and am now certainly pressured at times to put a lot of hours in after my regular job. Its still fun though, so I guess I have to maintain the balance because I can certainly see how it could become miserable if it gets away from me.
Keep me posted, I'm watching your progress with interest. You seem to me to be intelligent, hardworking and inventive, this is usually a recipe for success. Get it Hot! hit it Hard! Phil
I went to your site. nice work! I bought plans and shrinking thumbnail dies for the Hot Metal Customs power hammer. It's compact and 1/4" throw. I should be finishing it up shortly.
Hey, How big of an area does the "hot metal customs " power hammer take up? Thanx, Swankey devils C.C.
The Anoka power hammer by Hot Metal Customs is a compact machine compared to a Pullmax. Not real big. Since I only wanted to run thumbnail dies for shrinking, I made a 9" throat version for less than Hot Metal charges for their plans Tim D.
here pic's of my pettingill power hammer pre ww-1 is the best date i know about this machine updated with a hydraulic slave cylinder for the clutch
nice piece of machinery. I see that the dovetail attachment is after the leaf spring like the early yoder as opposed to being attached before the leaf spring. ie. the leaf spring has a circular motion rather than only an up and down motion. I also see that there is lateral support on the top arm (the rods) while the yoder has the lateral support on the bottom arm. Interesting differences. I wish I knew more about the forces involved. How does the thing hit? What sort of horsepower are you running? -mark
when running it will wake the dead in china, and is quite a animal to use, don't use it that much, have a planishing hammer that i like, i do more repair work then from scratch forming, the planishing hammer is big cast iron with 36' throat and it works wonders at fixing fenders and othe items that have dinged badly and often. overstressed the springs, i dont know much more there are support rods at the top and bottom photo doesn't show bottom rods very good
Mark, My name is Doug Times. I am a metalshaper from Miamisburg (Dayton), Ohio. I've been using my Quickwork Whiting hammer for about 5 years. I am also building a Yoder style and scale hammer currently. I found a commercially available cone style clutch from a company called "Tolomatic". It has a self contained pneumatic cylinder for operating the clutch (normally disengaged untill pressure is applied). The manufacturer said dot 5 brake fluid would not attack any of the seals, and I have made a foot controll using a brake master cylinder and have found that the clutch works great and is very controllable. As far as being underpowered, I do not know what motor you used, but the Yoder K-90-M used a 3HP 1200RPM motor, and that is exactly what I am building around. Here is a link to the website of the clutch manufacturer. http://www.tolomatic.com/products/sub_page_detail.cfm?tree_id=157&page_id=156&sub_page_no=21 If I can be of help on your hammer give me a call. Our shops are about a million miles apart, so I do not think there is much danger of us stealing each other's work. By the way, in July I'm also taking Fay Butler's seminar. Good Luck, Doug Times Times Welding (937)604-6931 - cell (937)865-9533 - shop
One of my hobbies is blacksmithing . A power hammer is a really useful tool but they are , as you know , expensive . Most of the blacksmithing sites ( California Blacksmith Assn , Aritst Blacksmith Assn of North America - ABANA ) all have featured articles on making your own . That may be one of my projects for this year .
The Jalopy Journal
