I am working on building out a property to become an automotive hobby shop. This is modeled on the kind of hobby shop that you may be familiar with if you were ever in the military. I can not find a private sector business that is renting out garage bays, so I am having trouble figuring out what to charge and what to offer. I read the link about spray booth rental, but have not found anything about garage bay rental. This shop is in Austin, Texas and we plan to open the doors in late February. I am open to all suggestions and ideas. Especially if you have any ideas how to keep me from getting sued....
Min, go L.L.C. and get 10 times the insurrance you can afford.. Good Luck..H Has been covered before, a search may bring it back up and give you some additional ideas. Sorry but I couln't find it. Its pretty old, coverd ideas such as insurrance, prices to charge, tool room for special and regular hand tools, manuals, good infro to guide and even help with/do with repairs, poss paint both rental, steam cleaner bay, clemical/oil/parts sales, skys the limit ??
My father mentioned once that you could rent out a lift/shop space to work on your own car back in the 50's-60's...but I always thought that insurance rates, sue-happy people, and lack of business (i.e. lack of people who knew enough to work on their own cars) killed that small industry off. How does it work in Texas? Can you just have them sign something saying that you are not responsible if they drop the car or set themselves on fire? I don't think that would hold up nowadays. I think it is a great idea but I'm not so sure about the liability side of it. Sort of like a high risk coin-op "pressure-wash-it-yourself" carwash place. I'm interrested in the responses here.
I think it's a great idea. I was a regular attendee at the one in Great Mistakes. Like Snapper said- I think insurance is the key, a disclaimer and a carefully worded waiver. Probably have to have a site safety guy roving.
Deffinately try doing a search. this very subject was covered about a year ago (maybe longer, I'm getting old.) I know a few of the issures were: 1) What to do when the renter didn't get his car "fixed" when the time ran out and he didn't have any more money. 2) What to do if a guy ran into a parts problem. 3) What to do about the guy that left the place a mess and took all your equipment he could steel. 4) Potensial injury. 5) Who supplies tools or speciality tools, or "how to" books, expert advice, oil dry and shop rags? 6) What about the renter's buddies that want to hang around and drink beer? You going to allow beer on site? Helpers? Food for thought. Cover your bases. Gene
The military hobby shops have gotten nazi-like in their safety stuff - so much so, it's hard to get anything done. A staff employee has to do nearly everything - including raising/lowering lift. Used to be real good - still cheap, but effectiveness is way down. Nice part is they're heated & my garage ain't!!
The local one here in Cincinnati makes you join a club and pay a membership fee of $75 per year. Their spray booth is $50/hr. Bays are $25/hr. ALL supplies are sold to customer as needed.
Along the same line was a housing development that would have a central hobby shop , automotive,woodwoking,electronics ,metalworking , paint and body , machine shop and something for the 'wimmin folk to do . I ran this by a developer/hot rodder friend and he was ready until we talked to his insurance guy and his mouthpiece ! Everyone from the EPA , DOT, OSHA and MADD would have an issue . It's hard enough to keep a private enterprise maintenance facility within all the regs.! But I still like the idea, born 50 years too late?
I'm sure there are some guys from Edmonton Alberta on here. I've seen one up there in the Old Strathcona area. Eric
theres a car show on NPR by Click and Clack the (insert name that i cannot spell here) brothers Tom and Ray. although i think they are a couple of blowhards, they did have some insight into this, as they ran a shop like this once (okay, fine, i did listen to them for a time before they became insufferable). the two things that made them close thier shop was people getting hurt and trying to sue, and people starting a project and not being able to finish. not just finish before time ran out. not being able to finish period. oh, you'll help them out? do you really want to rebuild a Jaguar automatic transmission? do you really? if you do go through with this, have a REALLY good lawyer draw up that waiver for you. If you decide to have a paint booth, remember that urethane paints contain isocyanates, and if someone becomes sensitized, they can easily die. so its plenty of high tech respirator equipment, and of course, and armed guard to make sure that everyone follows the rules for you. personally, i think this is a great idea, but it looks like society has decided to hold everone accountable for everything, except the individual, who is of course the innocent victim.
It could be like Darnell's. I wonder if it going to end up being old warehouse space gets divided off into Garage size spaces. Then to keep someone from getting sued list them as shop condo's. It will be run by a tenants association that will have a tool room. Damn, I should be writting this down.
that's the only way i see it really working, as opposed to a pay by the hour deal. i doubt there is many people that would pay the $25 an hour quoted above. you could have a price struture by the day, week or month depending on the individuals needs. i would even hesitate to supply any tools, keep it simple. supply heated secure spaces with good electricity and the rest is up to the renter. i'd shoot for maybe 200-250% of what the local market rate is for storage space, ie. if you can get a 10x20 storage unit for $100 a month, i'd charge about 250 a month for a space big enough to work on a car(say 12x28 or so). you ain't gonna make a lot of money per space, but charge too much and you ain't even gonna pay the rent. deal with deadbeats just like the storage places do, auction their stuff off if they don't pay. a dirty secret of storage places, they often make better money selling the renters unpaid for stuff than the monthly rent, i know of a guy who runs storage, and has an auction every saturday to liquidate stuff.
A lot of variables to consider. Probably best to rent most of the space monthly. Here in NJ a 12' wide x 24' deep garage goes $100-150/ month. That's if it has basic 110v electric and a light bulb. I'd say that 200-250 for a working space would be right. Maybe some space could be hourly so some guy could pull off a set of brakes on a rainy Sat.? It's a cool idea. I hope it works for you.
I see it as a great way to lose a ton of cash. Too many variables, combined with dumbass customers, and the yellow pages full of lawyers. good luck...you will need it.
I have wanted to do this for a while but I agree the only approach would be the tenant style. Get a warehouse and divide it up with chainlink bays so people could lock their stuff up. Provide electrical, air, heat, and light and market the place to the hobbyist (you dont want every joe blow working on their Camry or using your place to fix other peoples cars). For sure a security guard pushing a zero tolerance list of rules would be needed. I think in a bigger city there are a lot of apartment dwellers that would own and work on old cars if they had a place to work on them and store them. There are a lot of legal hurdles but if you could get the right people in there it would be a great place.
for you folks searching for those other threads...i remember it being specifically about a machine shop and not a garage...but there were still some great ideas....try searching with machine shop in the search.
I had planned this a few years ago, but didn't have the money to do it. My plan was with an old storage lot, for small seperate units. An office with tool rental and a connected bay. A few rent by the day and a bunch of monthly rentals. I would steer clear of lifts. Too easy for stupid people to get hurt. You should have everyone fill out a waiver, but in Texas its worthless. Allow the renters to have one vehicle outside of there bay, all others should go to an over flow area. Charge a extra small fee for the overflow spaces.
Hire (or do it yourself if qualified) an accountant to run a year's projected P&L for the business. This will give you an idea of the numbers and the price to charge for your space. It 's time consuming and can be boring to some but a critical part of the equation. The concept puzzles me. Who is it going to attract ? Who do you want as a customer? Just from reading the posts on the HAMB, how many would , travel to a different location to work on a vehicle and how much travel time are they spend going to and from; who would spend the money to rent the space and why? To properly equip a shop you can easily spend $250k+ plus the real estate. $600k is going to be a minimum investment . I'm unaware of any similar projects in my area. There is an upscale housing development with a race course setting that has large rentable garage with space available. You have to be a member to use the facility. It's set up on a country club type business model. But they charge big bucks for membership fees and a monthly service charge.
I've always thought the concept of renting out work space, tools and equipment, as interesting. I'm kind of like Larry though, the expense (investment) vs. the potential reward (profit), vs. the potential liability (legalman) don't look real good. I think the only way to make this type of concept fly, is the membership format/similar to a country club. For the most part, guys who can afford this format, don't want to work on their cars, or have their own facility available. Not wanting to rain on the parade, but reality is what it is. Stu
along with that CPA your gonna need to put on retainer add a business attorney to that expense as well, he's gonna have to be the one that comes up with the foolproof wording on your waivers and everything else....
There's a place called Your Own Garage on Queenston St. in St. Catharines ON Canada. Not much info online about them that I could find, but I've used them off and on over the years. Not cheap, but handy. Tools, lift, paint booth, all for rent. All consumables must be paid for outright. No car storage. NO drinking. I'm 1,000 miles from St. Catharines now, but I actually think I have a price sheet somewhere. I'll have a look tonight after work.
Women and kids spend ALL the money in this country. Guys only need parts stores, junkyards and Hooters.
I have seen the concept work in Florida. Mostly well off guys wanting a place to park their street rods and bench race. Lots of high dollar stuff in plastic bubbles. Has a lift, and it is available, but the owner is in charge and there at all times. No painting. Waivers won't save much if negligence is proven. You can't predetermine negligence. This would really be directed at the country club set that could afford it. Outside storage would be frowned upon in many locals. Lots to think about, but it would be a fun business for sure.
!n 1970, my boss at the local Enco station, charged me $20 a day to use his lift to swap out the old 347 engine,3 speed, bellhousing, driveshaft etc etc to make my 57 Pontiac a 389, 4 speed car. Took 2 days [$40] which was big money in those days. I paid it gladly. Engine and donor car [wrecked 59 Pontiac] and separate Muncie 4 speed came to another $120 to give you an idea of what money was worth those days.. I think I'd charge by the day, [$100-150]or week [$350-500] I wouldn't want to tie up my spaces for a full month. Plus, nobody would pay what the daily/weekly rate would equal for a whole month.
I hope this is going to be outside of the city limits of Austin, otherwise you will have the city there all of the time with their hands out in the way of fines and permits. The membership idea is probably the best way to go as far as liability is concerned. As is was pointed out elsewhere in this thread, in Texas a liability waiver is not worth the paper it is written on, yet I still have to sign one everytime I enter the pit gate at every race track I go to. I think that the only think I would supply is electricity and compressed air. Everything else the customer should have to provide. Otherwise you would have to be there all of the time to make sure that you dont get cleaned out. Sounds like a great idea to me, you might even consider selling some of the space as condos for guys like me that drive and work on the same car for decades. The biggest thing I can see that you need to do is make sure that you have all of the rules spelled out in writing, post the rules on signs everywhere on the premises, make the tenant sign a copy of the rules and then enforce the rule. if you cover all of your bases you should be able to make a go of it.
Holy shit! Not only did I remember to look when I got home last night, I actually found the damn brochure!! (NOTE: I have nothing to do with this business. I have used it and thought it was a good business concept) I do know it has been around for a long time, and it is a working shop, not a place for rich guys to hang around in. Most of the guys working there are just working stiffs, a lot of young guys with no real tools at home, or apartment dwellers. It's also a place for mechanics and painters to freelance without having friends and neighbours bringing cars to their house. Time and supplies add up in a hurry, so guys show up, do the work and get the hell out. I don't remember if they have a waiver to sign or not. If I were getting into this business I would spend good money on a lawyer and insurance. When you rent a bay it's like renting a car: the attendant unlocks a tool cabinet and together you account for all the tools. At the end of your session, the attendant comes over and together you account for all the tools again. Nothing walks away that way (in theory). Also, you breaks it you buys it. You can bring your own tools and supplies (no discount for using your own tools). Having owned a bar, I would guess that one problem would be "friends" hanging around looking for freebies or discounts (real friends understand that it's a business and don't abuse the privilege). Like any business, everything that isn't in use or isn't being paid for by a customer is coming out of your pocket. This is a 2001 price list. I would guess that the prices are higher now, but this should give you an idea. "Your Own Garage. St. Catharines Auto and Truck Do It Yourself Centre" ALL BAYS Cars and Pick-up Trucks: $9.00/hour $60.00/day $275.00/week Campers, Tractors and Trucks: $12.00/hour $90.00/day $295.00/week BODY REPAIR SECTION 20 fully equipped bays 2 DeVilbiss Spray Booths Paint Booths = $32.00/hour or Last Call is 1.5 hours painting time and overnight in the booth for $65.00 All tools except welding equipment included in bay rental. MIG: $3.50/hour ARC: $3.50/hour Torches: .5¢/lb of oxygen; minimum charge $3.50 Sandblaster: $9.00/hour plus material Complete line of body repair supplies available, including paint. MECHANICAL SECTION 20 fully equipped bays 3 car hoists 3 transmission jacks 2 engine hoists Tire changer and balancer Parts wash station Various specialty tools available Car Hoist: $11.00/hour 20 Ton Bench Press: Min. Charge $10.00 All tools including floor jack and axle stands included in bay rental. Some supplies in stock: Lubricants Filters Spark plugs Heater hose Clamps Nuts and bolts Brake pads and shoes Other items available on request. Subject to supplier's hours and delivery charges. We machine rotors and drums We balance tires Mechanic available. Ask for a free estimate. TERMS CASH/CREDIT CARDS/DEBIT ONLY NO TABS (arrange payment before the car leaves the building) NO STORAGE (unless pre-arranged: you leave it, we own it) 8am to 11pm weekdays 8am to 6pm weekends
Just wanted to share my experiences with such a place. I have a buddy the has some what doen this. He wanted his own "toy box" where he could expand his vehicles, tools space ect... So he is currently has a long term lease on a large ware house not far from his house. He partnered with another frined and they moved in. They each set up shop where they wanted in the ware house, added a couple big lifts, air compressor, plummed the whole place for air, stuck in a couple fridge's, microwave and a big screen TV. Here's how it works; They subsidized their rent by rentine out extra stalls in they place. They work it on the honor system. 1 space to Store vehicle, parts, trailer, tools = $100 a month. If you wanna work on your car there... for $300 you get a Key and move in one veh your tools and parts. Now they're not in it as a business, just a cool place to work and keep your stuff. Granted, this place isn't open to the plubic, so the honor system works but the palce is full... BYC
One idea about libiality you could look into is setting up a small LLC that would "own" the shop and everything else so if something did happen they could not directly come at you but rather the corporation and its assets (the shop) Idk I figure that idea is a lil better than loosing everything you own.
Not to hijack but there is a little different twist here. A local developer is building a bunch of double garages approx 28 x 28. They come equipped with full utilities. They are lined up in an area zoned for light industrial purposes next to a bunch of mini storage units. The customer buys the building similar to how you would buy a condo. The buyer then takes full ownership of the building including all subsequent liability. I’m not sure what strings may be attached as far as covenants, restrictions, usage, etc. They seem to be marketed to the hobbyist and small business operator. The bad news is that these go for 45,000 each. That puts it out of reach for the shade tree mechanic but still cheaper that buying property and building your own garage. Most residential homes around there don’t have enough room around them to build a garage on to because of zoning ordinances-go figure.
Renting a spray booth is one thing, but by the time you add up all the insurance, safety patrol guy, lights, air, tools, etc.... you end up charging a buck-fifty less than a repair shop. For a buck fifty, I won't wrench on my shit either! Our sue-happy scumbag society ruins these good ideas fr everyone! Just my 2 cents............
The Jalopy Journal
