I'm not going to go into exact details at this time but .. I took a car to a shop to have some very,very basic fab work done Before I took there , gave him a list .. he quoted xxxx -- I thought it was in high side but, okay ..I'm so busy with my biz After 3-4 weeks of flip flopping on what to do .. I took my car to him The shop has been know for years for quality work, and I will say it is done very good .. not perfect but very good, better than I can do we added a couple items .. over all I'd say 15% more work The bill is over 3 times quoted price .. We are not talking peanuts here .. You could buy many, many cars for the bill No, not a 32 deuce coupe but a nice driver Do I have any recourse or am I JUST screwed example $840 to make seat brackets--see pic The prices are just ..well crazy any ideas, adivice .. legal help ?
$840!!!??? Looks like they added one too many zeros. That looks like about a two hour job to me. So is that guy charging $420/hour? Holy smokes. Was it all verbal, or did you have some sort of a written estimate? Good luck.
Yeah man, Judge Joe Brown or Judge Mills Lane. Take his ass to court. I assume it is over 5K. Get a list of what work was done 5-6 other shop quotes. Contact the BBB (better business bureau) and see if the shop has a history of this. Then contact a Lawyer for some free-mildly priced legal recourse advice. There are many steps you will probably half to take. Be SURE that you have all your ducks in a row. When and if you go to court once again MAKE SURE all your ducks are in a row. The more prepared you are the better. 30% of court cases won can be attributed to having a better personal defense, knowing when to shutup and let the evidence do the talking. AND let your personal feelings towards the individual stay repressed. Treat the Defendant as a business not a person in the court room. I ahve been to court over several personal issues and these are just the lessons that I have learned. Hope I have been helpful. Jon
$840 bucks for $20 brackets?????Sorry shop owners, but those are shit. What are the Texas laws concerning quotes an actual costs? Pat
I believe most states have limits to excess charges....If you had an estimate, usually fifteen percent over the estimate is legal to charge without your approval.....I'd check with the state attorney general about specifics.
well .. I've been told several things .. Had attorney tell me .. that we would win this case ..but, my car is there have to pay before it leaves yes(I'll tell everyone where it is once it is out) I have several thousand in it .. Enough to make me sick so, I'm not willing to gamble my car at this point Think once its paid , I admit the price is agreeable And yes, its way over 5k way over Had a quote for the 1st part ..Not over, one person told me .. after that ..He is in control feedback ?
Hope everything comes out ok. I'm sick for you, I hate when people try to screw someone. I'd never have the guts to do something like that. Hell I feel bad if something's just a hair more than what I said, and usually eat it just to not make a problem. In the future, and for everyone else, you've just got to get things in writing. Even if it makes it seem like you come across as not trusting the guy if you ask for it in writing. There have been many a time where things would have went horribly wrong like this if I hadn't made the other place put it in writing. And even a couple where we did have it in writing and they done it anyway and we took them to court, and won. Seems like everyone is just out to rape everyone else anymore. .
I hate hearing and seeing stuff like this. Probably has happened to a high percentage of people too. Did he quote from a list without seeing the car? Was it a quote or a ballpark. Was there any communication after the car was dropped off to re-address the work content, condition etc. etc. Not to slam anyone in any trade but there are some very talented craftsmen that go into business because they are very talented and there is demand for there work, but sometimes they are not the best people to be running a business. In my opinion, They should quote the work, communicate progress, be accountable to the quote within a agreed upon percentage. If it was blown by 2X or 3X and it was a firm quote you have some leverage and need to negotiate. Unfortunately the consumers responsibility is to do the same. Ask for a quote, ask for progress billing, stop in, ask where your at on the budget. Often makes me wonder. There are some shops that are not well equipped but there labor rates are low, takes them longer to do the work. Example $45 per hour 10 hours $450. The next shop is better equipped, but his per hour rate is higher and he get the job done quicker. Example $75 per hour X 6 hours =$450. Then do the guys above charge for thinking time, planning time, parts chasing? and if so at what rate. Irregardless the estimate should take care of that. Same for consumables (gas, cutting discs, etc etc) $840 Looks reallllly excessive for the simple seat brackets. Looks like a 1/2 day project at the most so maybe $300.00?? including Mat'l and supplies? If you haven't paid the bill, I would definately negotiate and ask them to itemize. If you had a firm quote and a itemized list of what was done and what was added you might be able to take legal action, but it would be a shame for both parties for it to go that far.
Had it in writing ..email (NFG) so the attorney says Can't guarantee who sent what from where ..I see that as a loophole I think a CROOK is going to steal, one way or another ... You think if he quoted me $1440 labor to route an plumb brake lines I'd agree to that ?--cause that is what he charged me Just route, and bend and plumb ..all told brakes cost me over $2000 (no parts, just labor) $320 to mount master cylinder and push rod --4,maybe 5 bolts ? stock location, basicly stock master cylinder give or take drive shaft loop (see pic) $780 labor
He came and looked at car (30 miles) BEFORE we agreed to anything .. I gave him a list of things needed done .. he quoted **** It was allot but, seen the work the shop produces .. thought well, it will be done right atleast .. thought about for atleast a month WENT to his shop, told him , over,and over .. IF we get past this amount (knew we would) do not let your work, exceed my projected bill , ever --went thru this over and over and over we added small items,, maybe another $1000 or so in my mind but was prepared to be charged twice as much as quoted.. well, its twice x twice .. its allot ..Yes, he gave me itemized bill $720 for chute mount ..(see pic)--please is that $720 labor anywhere I'm not talking parts on any of this .. Just labor parts he only clipped me 20% more.. I brought most in
Wow......That is absolutely nuts, and way.. way..out of line. Maybe I am to practical but I would think as a builder. "the guy needs a driveshaft hoop". The perceived value of that should be $120. I can't believe a guy in good faith would think a guys needs a $780 driveshaft hoop. OK now I'm speechless....
Thats obviously too much money for the seat brackets..see if you can talk them into mediation, it is cheaper than lawyers and the goal is to reach an agreeable compromise..one of my shop experiences went down the tubes because my partner was padding customers hours to raise the money to build his roundy-round car, oh and not paying the rent. I was the nuts and bolts shop manager, he was the guy in the front office BSing, gets me into trouble everytime...
most quotes have a time period on them, when I quote work, its good for seven day, after that I name my price, can we say change order. there is really nothing you can do, its legal but its bad practice but legal.
Honestly, it sounds like you went to a top flight shop, that charges top prices. You are correct that you may eventually win in court, but the attourneys fee's will be right in line with the prices the guy working on your car charged...think you are pissed now? that drive shaft loop is pretty nice. What does a certified welder charge per hour in Texas? Have it out with the shop owner now. Or just figure on doubling your cash out lay with your attourney, in order to possibly beat some change out of the guy. and by the way, never tell a fabricator what he should charge for something. Ask for an itemized quote, if it is not good enough, ask for another one until you are very happy...or he tells you which way the door is. fabricators and artist are avery crotchety bunch.
Generally the court is on the side of the consumer.In this case if you have a written estimate, the shop owner can charge 25% more w/o approval.Did you have an "extras "agreement in writing ? If not , you are not responsable for the extras, so deduct that from the bill. All said and done , get your car ASAP ,or he will start charging a storage fee. That means he will stack that against your car, and end up owning your car with a lein. Go to one of this guys competetors, and find out whom they use for an Attorney, they will be better equiped to handle this type of case. Hope this helps Msgt Dad
First off, I do this kind of work in a medium priced shop. You are right that it appears he is about 3x on his prices. Second, did you sign a work order? If so, you will have to play ball with the attorney. If not, go get your car and leave him with everything that can be detached from the car and tell him you'll buy the rest when he regains his sanity. Use a repo man to pick up the car if needed. Once in your possesion, he needs signed paper to hold you to much. Third, Don't lose that email. Conact your Cyber-Crimes division at the Ft. Wth PD and ask if they can do anything to validate the origin of the message. You prove that it came from a PC under his control and you have a lock. Every email has an electronic trail imbedded in the header data that you don't see. Visit him with your attorney and photograph everything he did right in front of him. Don't go by his detail, make your own. take the photos and details to other shops that maintain a commercial front and get written quotes for the work. Be prepared to pay a fee for their time. Sue him for all your costs over the original quote and see if he settles. Unless he has tons of cash to spare, he will.
I JUST HAVE A QUESTION?----You can in good faith and clean mind fuck someone over and not think twice? If so tell me what your secret is so I can tell your customers the same.
My attorney asked if I signed "anything?" --He said this is critical Nope, has to provide you with paperwork upfront that says more or less .. possible lien in advance-- He claims, after one or two letters ,,shop"owner" will drop the charges --I suck at roulette .. car is a 75K piece without this bill
I mean seriously? that is probably the one statement that someone on this message board should probably steer clear of.
Is this the same car and shop that you were complaining about in this thread?? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132928
No, I sat down with him and we decided he was at little high I PAID his bill although still high I understood his thinking Hey liked that old fart but this one .. is way, way, way one more way ..higher .. but thanks for reminding me of that tried to put that behind me
Pay the bill, get your car, wait a couple of weeks and then call the IRS and tell them about a company you know that has some very interesting book keeping practices and probably needs auditing. PAYBACK!! I've heard so many stories like this over the years you'd be amazed how common it is.
Maybe this is all just a drawback of living in Texas. Ya'll know what they say about Texas don't ya? EVERYTHING is BIGGER in Texas! I clearly see this guy is doing his best to be sure of that with his insane illegal billing practice! DO NOT PAY WHAT HE IS WANTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go to a local major BANK or automotive dealership and ask who does their repossesions for them. Contact that person....repos range from $150- $600 or so....most get $300.... pay the repo man and arrange a time, call the local police and all arrive together with your paperwork for legal ownership of the car. The LAW... Unless you BOTH SIGNED a work order... for ANY amount... that is YOUR vehicle... he can say you owe it...and you can say you paid him... ( he can try the "verbal agreement"..and you can use the "proverbial cash paid to him" ) there is no paperwork either way....EXCEPT for the LEGAL ownership of the car itself.... GET THE VEHICLE BACK IN YOUR PHYSICAL POSSESSION A.S.A.P. Possession is 99% of the law. Let him BILL you for whatever work he did. Beleive me when I say this......... He will have a much harder time trying to prove that he did any work to that car , then you will trying to prove the amount that was agreed on. DO NOT let him keep the upper hand on this one... get your car OUT OF THERE! By law the police have to assist you regain your legal property.... and unless he can place something in the officers hand that shows what you agreed to pay...he's screwed! He has NO mechanics lein. If he comes up with paperwork signed by you on whatever you originally agreed on...just be prepared to pay him on the spot and get it signed by both him and the officer witnessing it, PAID IN FULL. If it comes down to getting it out of there, and as awful as it is....and there is nothing signed by you for what was supposed to be done...... just say it went there for final bodywork and paint... and he hasn't worked on it at all and you want to get it out of there. WHATEVER YOU DO.......... DO NOT pay him a dime in any way shape or form unless it is trackable, tracable and witnessed.... and towards a bill on his shops forms....listed out described and broken down. and then ONLY pay it if it is DATED CURRENT and has a GRAND TOTAL listed to your liking. Hope I have helped you some. Also............ DO NOT even think about a check for what he is wanting just to get your car out of there, and then cancelling it/stopping payment..... I repeat...DO NOT.... once you write that and hand it to him....cancelled or not...you JUST AGREED on the amount you owe him and are admitting he did that amount of work. Stay away from that can of worms. DO NOT PAY WHAT HE IS WANTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep me posted.
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