I spend most of my time on Hotrodders at the moment due to my current project but I have a question maybe more suited for this forum. A buddy of mine has a 53 Ford flatty V8 complete with 3 carbs, intake, water pumps, Gen, Starter, clutch, bell, 3 speed ****** and overdrive. Pretty much drop it in and turn the key. Thinking about getting it and just shoving it into the shed for awhile until the time comes to find a set of rails and old roadster. Maybe an abandoned project or something. Is the 53 a good engine for an early roadster job? Would this be a good drivetrain? It's all complete, even runs. Pics aren't very clear but... Thanks.
No, they ****. If I were you I would just walk away from the whole deal. Can you PM me the guys number? I would like to talk to him.
Weeding through the sarcasim I'd have to ***ume it's a good drivetrain? Price is $1500 complete, as is. Seems high but I know very little about these engines, which is why I'd like some opinions on it. Last flatty I worked on was in the 1970's so it's been quite awhile. Enlighten me please.
This came out of a car, I do remember someone telling me you had to change water pumps and headers to fit it between A rails, which would be my plan. I really don't know much about these but hate to let it go being a complete running package. I was hoping to get some first hand experiences from someone as I'd hate to have to change out everything by not knowing up front. Also this engine has the water lines at the front of the heads, any benefit or detriment on that vs center lines?
Truck water pumps have flat feet parallel to the horizon or frame, so that makes making motor mounts in an early frame easier. That's why people change the pumps. That transmission is intended for a column shift car. That would be neat in an old roadster, but the more popular set up is a top shift transmission. That looks like an Overdrive transmission, so you may think that's cool and fab a top shifting bracket to make it work like a top shifter. Or you may end up selling the trans and getting something else you like For the motor and trans, that sounds like a "what they are going for" kind of price. If you chickened out, you could definately sell it for that on ebay. and yeah... I wouldn't mind having that in my garage either.
The guy that owns it said he heard you could put an S-10 5 speed on it with a available adapter he heard about. Wonder if you'd have to change the flywheel and cutch ***embly? Or maybe just the disc? He said something about the overdrive being a PITA with a floor shift, he had it in a 51 column shift, had some sort of ****on on the floor and lever under the dash to go into overdrive. Said if I wanted a floor shift I can get a shifter but I'd probably have to remove the overdrive or get real creative.
I have one of these transmissions. It came in the 51 ford parts car I got. I kept it because I thought I might want the overdrive option someday in case I decide I don't like the '39 style trans in my 46. i just figured you coudl find some kind of Hurst shifter or something to make it a floor shift. Does anyone know why this plan wouldn't work? I don't plan on using it, but i like to have backup plans for my backup plans. If it has to be run as a column shift, i might try to unload it for more parts moolah. Anyone got any ideas on this?
I did something similar as what you are asking. I ended up with a block with 2 cracks from valves to piston. That is what I would be careful for. Some flatheads get pulled because they are heating which could be caused from a cracked block. For that price, pull off the heads and check for cracks in the area of the valves. When you have the heads off you can measure the stroke. Either 3 3/4 or 4 inch. Get yourself up to speed on the flathead motors. http://groups.msn.com/FordFlathead1932to1953/general.msnw A very good site with excellent links. check out the Techno Site link and Ruble Seat's Tips. The information there will answer 90% of the questions that you will have. Neal
My flatty/5 speed combo w/4:10 gears gets over 30 mpg on the freeway and pulls like, well, a built flatty. Just make sure to pull the heads before ya spend your money on it.
$1500 is close to a good price. I've picked up the exact same motor with Edelbrock heads for $1200 a few years ago. Brand new truck water pumps can be bought at Speedway motors, not that expensive. These are the types you would buy to put in a roadster or pre 49 Ford. Very standard swap. The truck pumps make it much easier to install into an A. You can buy a standard shifter (or even an old floor shifter) to convert that trans to floor shift. Your only issue would end up being shifter placement with regards to your seat and whatever else is in the cab. If you want to move to an older 39 style top loader, bell housing adapters are readily available. The throw out fork on that motor is way different than the throw out fork on 39 top loader styles. Pre 49 Ford clutch pedal setups hook right up to pre 49 transmissions, but not to the motor pictured, so using this transmission basically determines what pedals you will be using. People here have used hydraulic clutch pedal setups on this motor pictured. Flatmotors are fun, but take a little more patience than owning an SBC. Some stuff can be bought down the street, some stuff has to be mail ordered. It will never have the potential power of an OHV, but it surely has the cool factor. There are many people on this board that have tackled all the above issues and more. Just go for it and blame us later. Mike
Here's a few links I've found helpful with flattys. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_home.htm http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/flathead.htm Some fun stuff http://www.flatheadjack.com/#
Never buy any flathead without first pulling the heads. Two out of three will be cracked. I'm not saying they're not worth it at all. Two out of three of my cars have them. The're the best in my opinion, nothing feels like a flathead.
What's the deal with the water outlets coming out the front vs some I've seen in the center of the engine? According to the above site it was changed to front in 49. Did they cool better or worse? Can the aluminum center port heads work on the later engines? Worth it? They do "look" cooler coming out the center.
In an effort to improve cooling old Henry re-designed the water circuit thru the block in 1949. The re-design forced more water to the rear of the block, out into the heads and out the front of the heads. The earlier blocks had the majority of the water exit the middle of each deck, and out the middle of the deck. You can install the older heads on the newer blocks with fairly few changes. The later block has the dizzy out the p***engers side of the engine at about a 45 degree angle and it's locked down on the p***engers side head on a flat. The earlier blocks had te dizzy mounted on the front of the cam snout on the front of the block. Search the tech section on this site for more info on the change. I have to agree, pull the heads and look for cracks from any valves toward or to any og the cylinders. Some small cracks from the stud holes to the cooling holes on the decks are common and it has been suggested that Henry ***igned parts numbers to these. Good luck it will make a great motor to be much admired by many
If possible pull both heads and check for cracks.Also, does it have stock crank, lifters, pistons,etc. Since it has 3 carbs maybe you'll get lucky and find it has other goodies like a 4" Merc crank, Johson adjustable lifters, etc. Measure the cylinder bore and stroke and compute cubic inch displacement. Stock 1953 Ford flattys are 239 cubic inch. Anyhting bigger is a plus. 3/3/8 bore x 4 1/8 stroke would be a 296 cubic inch "stroker motor". Perhaps the fellow who is seling it could give you more info. A stock 1953 Ford flathead runs between $500-800 depending on condition. Much less if it has any cracks.
Well, I asked about pulling the heads to check for cracks, figured I could measure while in there. But he said he's not pulling the heads, that the engine was running fine 2 years ago when it was pulled. I offered $100 to pull them, if I didn't buy it he could keep the $100, no deal. So I'll let it sit awhile. I know another guy is looking at it for the long block only and he wants the heads pulled as well. I want it all so my offer is better. I'd like to have it but nothing I can do now but wait him out or roll the dice. Think I'll wait. Thanks guys, you gave me a lot of insight into Flat Heads.
Looks like a nice mill, these are fading away fast, get'em while they last. The advice on checkin the block with the heads pulled is a must. A great way to go is the t-5 5-spd, contact Gary @ Cornhusker Rods in Alexandria, Ne. for the proper adapter, his #-402-749-1932. He is the BEST. Plenty of other knowledge about flatheads, ch***is, etc.-Sololobo
Pulling off the heads is simple on the newer flathead since it has bolts and not studs. The motor is worth more if he shows the block is good. As I wrote before, I learned the hard way and will not pay serious money again without pulling them. ***ume it is cracked unless shown otherwise. Mine ran fine except blew water out when I drove it hard. I could putz around town with no problem. That was with 2 big cracks. Good luck. Neal
Guess I could offer him $1000 as is, $1500 if it's verified no cracks. Doubt he'll go for that but worth a try. How hard is it to fix a cracked Flathead block if it's from the valve to cylinder? Weld it with a nickel rod and have it re-machined?
Have not done one but yes, fix the crack by screws or welding. Reseat the valve and sleeve the cylinder. That is if the crack does not go too far into the valve area. Neal
You can use a Hurst Indy shifter but you will have to fabricate the rods to go up and over the solenoid for the overdrive. You can also retain the overdrive with this since the solenoid activated the OD (Along with a mechanical cable under your dash) and install a toggle switch to activate it. This is the way mine operates. Been driving it 10 years this way.
See if he'll guarantee it's crack free - if not, he buys it back for full refund. A gamble still, but might be worth it. I think it's a reasonable price - not a smoking deal, but with all accessories & nearly drop-in & run, not too bad. If you're going to do a T5 swap then the original trans & clutch become excess weight you have to drag & dispose of. Use that in your negotiations. Probably won't sway the fellow much, if any - he wants it all gone - but worth a shot. For T5 info, see the following: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20583 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39127 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108634 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89495 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46109 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53148
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