i still got a long way to go ....but inspired by this thread i shaved one of my door handles tonight...and it came out close...but still not perfect....practice practice practice i guess.... gringo and gambino....thats some awesome work...... my questions to some of the pros here ......are 1. what is the best method to grinding perfectly (what do ya use to get the weld perfectly flush with out chancing gouging the metal? my method has been get it close with a 36 grit pad on a die grinder and switch to a 60 grit ..then when i think its almost there...block sand it to knock down any slag or high spots...and the occasional body file... 2. do you use mig or tig welders? if your useing mig ...do you weld short beads jumping around? and if so how do you keep it from slightly warping....on the long seams mainly...like when doing a chop? every now and then i get a miniskule gully on one side of my seam just barely noticable ....i atributed it to sheetmetal placment not being exactly right...or could it be im running the welder a bit too hot? or concentrating on one area a little too long? any answers are greatly apreciated... but i tell ya ive learned alot on my own but if i knew some one to aprentice from ...id do it .....
Hey, To grind an area with a minimal of damage to the metal I use a 7" or 9" disc on an eletcric grinder (disc size depends on area being- worked) and a 24 grit closed coat disc. Die grinders are great for tool and die work, or for cleaning up welds in tight places, but will dig holes in your work and make more work for ya. A larger disc will shape your repair to the surrounding panel and serve to tell you if the repair is high, low, or dead on. If the grinding showed that your repair is to low, than it needs to be bumped up to normal conture. If it's to high, it needs to be hammered down to normal conture. To remove the deep grinder marks left by the 24 grit disc, a 60 grit disc, again a disc, not a pad is used. The 24 grit disc will be used in a left to right direction across the panel, the 60 grit will be used at a 45 degree direction across the 24 grit passes. An 80 grit pad, on a da sander will finish off the repair, and ready the panel for primer without the need for a lot of surfacer to fill deap scratches left in the metal. I don't know where the pratice of grinding sheetmetal with cut off discs started, but I'm seein' a lot of it. Remember, every scratch and gouge ya put it the metal that doesn't need to be there is more work for ya. Given the cost of finish today, don't look to surfacer or spot putty to save ya from work you should have done with a grinder. 'cant help on the squirt gun welder questions, as I gas weld every- thing. More tack welds spaced further apart may help with the dis- tortion on your repairs. Swankey Devils C.C.
1. Depends on the amount of welding/work is involved. I usually use a 4 1/2" grinder with a disc for big stuff, and a finer flap disc for the finer finish, DA to finalize it. for smaller stuff, I love my die grinder with 2" discs...or if I've got some extra dough, I get the flap disc for the 2" pad. Another great littel grinder is to use a cut-off tool. You can buy cut off discs that are pretty thick (I think 1/8 to 1/4") that make GREAT little grinders for topping off welds. You really have a LOT of control with that tool. 2. I TIG when i don't need to reshape the metal much, gas if I need to reshape it. The heat affected zone is much larger with gas, and you have more time to shape the metal, cause it stays hotter in a larger area. MIG I never had much luck in trying to work the weld seam. I've always heard the weld is too brittle, mine usually cracks when worked too hard.
I would love to be able to do that! and the Kid @ 13??? Holy Crap!!! How the heck do you weld a section of roof in that large and not be able to see the weld seam....how is he welding it?? I see a mig, and he mentions a TIG towards the end with the X shape weld being his first - so the roof was done with something else.
Yes, I am poor and I use HF “bottom feeder” tools, . My work is a joke and I like it. How dare I even say I could work metal? If I am working on your car, come and get it, before Its really F&*k it up; muhahahha!. Someone quick, PM Cornernfool! I can stretch the metal, but still trying to figure out how to shrink it. Nice thread up until now...
awesome guys....its never anything terrible...i bump it out but always end up needing a slight bit of filler in some areas of the seams any ways which i know is normal...but being i want to learn to finish possiblly staying away from the filler....i do also use the 4 1/2 inch grinder...but have yeat to try a 7 inch........i did a little shaving today and it wasnt bad...i think im starting to grasp it more....i also think i need to take a bit more time with the hammer and dollys on it....i think my work has come along way...but some day i want perfect...thanks for the tips.....and any one else that wants to add too im all ears....
Hey, Real metalfinishing isn't so much about grinder use, as it is about proper use of the hammer/slapper, dolly and a good and sharp vixson file. Get a good file and learn about its proper use and the quality of your work will improve. Swankey Devils C.C.
actually pimpin paint, a vixen file never touched that willy`s and its damn near perfect. instead of a file removing metal, a shrinking disc is the new way to metalfinish. gary
It appears willys boy aka "GOD" doesn't leave much for a gap for filler wire in his patch panels. The tight butt weld seems to work for him. I guess if you are still getting 100% weld penetration it doesn't matter. Coolest part of this thread is that willys, really cool. I almost wish I had a piece of shit car that needed a lot of metal work. Not.
Norm, YOU have a problem that goes deeper than being "poor" or using bottom feeder tools!! I tried to be nice to you both publicly and privately --Now, Get Over It!! I stand by my initial post about quality tools and spending the time to learn to the the job correctly.
hi sawracer, his method of no gap , beveled edges works great. he`s way to short to be "God" , those hand made panels on that car are as straight in person as they are in the pics. gary
I have a problem? Secondly, I never saw a PM or post; so what are you talking about. Did you get my PM about the 32 Radiator you need? (buzzer....errrrrrrrrrrt!) probably not? I can only feel sorry for people like you.
Some really cool pictures in this thread! I just updated one of my albums on metalshapers.org. It shows how easy it is to metal-finish with a ballpeen hammer, a hammer and dolly, and a shrinking disc. After clicking on the link, scroll down to the last 15 pictures in the album. This method is dead simple, just takes the right tools, and techniques and a little bit of time to master. No worrying about mastering on-dolly stretching or filing too much metal away. Here is the album: http://allshops.org/cgi-bin/community/communityalbums.cgi?action=openalbum&albumid=9980121727059 John www.ghiaspecialties.com
Ive done metal finish on my own cars i dont think i ve got enough experience to do it on cutomers cars though they have asked me to.i took a 2 weekend class from a buddy of mine who does lead work and metal finish. i be more than happy to share my knowledge with you but i know everyone has their own style of doing metal finish. for the final step i have to do bondo or lead but its a real small amount myself personly down here have not met anyone who can finish witout somekind of filler to get the bodywork razor straight.
I don't know if Apprentice ship programs are standard for each trade in every state like Body Man,or Machineist etc. would be the same requirement in each state ,but if they want young people to apprentice they need to update their ways !I looked into the program twice once for weldor and once for machineist In both cases the first thing the guy that came to our shops said was I was being paid too much and in both cases I was lowest paid in the shop because I was entry level .for the machineist program it also required me to travel 1-1/2 hours away 1 day a week to attend a training program just for this trade and they expected my boss to pay me for the day .we have a very good trade school with a tool and die program right in town that could have done the training required.In a shop of only 5 guys loosing a man every week for a day plus having to pay out for that day just isn't possible!to learn gas welding I hung out at my older cousins body shop on weekends doing whatever he had me do just for the expierience I got
Leon, I have read your post 3 1/2 times now to make sure I was understanding you correctly. I think I understand your frustration and I hope I have not mis-understood what you are saying. Journeyman and Apprenticeships (in my mind) are for people that want to excel at their craft. Saying this another way, an Apprentice program would be like obtaining your MS from college and your Journeyman would be like obtaining your PhD after you have thoroughly studied and practiced your craft. Many who enter a trade school or college find themselves having to go away for 2 - 4 years (or longer ) to learn their studies and obtain a degree. I am sure you understand this and know that many do not receive scholarships and must pay for it out of their own pocket. Please understand that not everyone needs to go to college to be successful at what they do, --and many people can enter the job market w/o ever attending a school or being apprenticed. I will say this though. I have paid employees and their salary for them to attend schools related to our business. Many of the guys here who attend MetalMeet have met them. While I do pay for their schooling, it has to be a win-win scenario for me. In other words, I also need to reap a financial benefit for the money spent on that employee or I won't pay for it. Many employers have been burnt in the past (including me) and so we sometimes are a little "gun shy" on investing $$ and lost productivity on someone. I might also add that I have one employee that is a graduate of McPherson College's Auto Restoration Program where he spent four years of his life learning how to correctly do his job. Then he went to work at another shop for a couple of years obtaining more hands-on experience. Look at the sacrifices he has made (i.e: moving from FL to KS for 4 years and then to VA and now to TN). My point to you is that there is nothing wrong hanging out at your cousin's shop obtaining experience. Also, be excited that you are being paid better than average wages at your current employer but always keep in the back of your mind that in today's tough economy, everyone needs to be a continual value to their employer. Knowledge and Skill are values that I look for in an employee. To me I think you want to be just a bit better in Knowledge and Skill than someone wanting a similar job. That makes you valuable commodity in the marketplace. Valuable commodities also bring good money --and that's a good thing!!
I do what I can Ive been doing it a couple years on my own cars on and off.when I need help I ask my father He used to work at a bodyshop.I know alittle and got a long way to go.Im only 17
I absolutly love metal finishing. Like most people have said a huge part is having patience. I went to a school here in utah that taught about building street rods. Most of the kids there weren't too into metal shaping, and metal finishing, but I caught on pretty fast. I think the best thing for me was taking on projects that were way over my head. But even though at times they seemed impossible I just had to break it down into little steps insted of focousing on the whole project. Basicly I just tried to start with the basics like fitting welds together as nicly as possible before welding, and taking my time welding after that. There are lots of different methods to metal shaping and everyone has their preferences. Everything can be done with the simplest of tools, but if you are wanting to invest in more tools there are so many that speed up the metal finishing process. My favorite metal finishing tools are my planising hammer, bulseye pick, shrinking disc, english wheel, etc. Some of these dont cost a ton, but some cost lots. Its just how much you want to invest into the whole process. Anyway, good luck with metal finishing. Here are some pictures of my ongoing shop project. Its an all aluminum 1940 willys coupe. The pictures are of metal finishing the drivers door skin.
Nice job on the aluminum Willys! Since this thread was pulled from the depths, there have been a few free videos posted showing metal-finishing here: http://metalmeet.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=121 John www.ghiaspecialties.com
The Jalopy Journal
