Can you build a hot rod without a dial indicator?

I can recall years ago spending four to eight weeks just to do some mundane task like installing a new front end or A/c. Swweating out the details like an old mother hen. Stupid!
Maybe it has to do with age and the realization that the only person that is going to know the effort you spent is yourself.
Maybe its because as one gets old time is a critical factor.
You only have so many projects you can do in your lifetime.
I have alot of other type of cars I want to build and time is running out.
I appreciate the detail put into a car and one that has been built with mega hours of hand machined parts and with elaborate and creative design.
Most of the time I'm very jealous of the creativity.
But if I had another lifetime to live......
I wouldn't change my newfound style of building with a tape measure, level, eyeball and an occasional set of calipers.
I admire elaborate work but I most appreciate simplistic clean designs.
Dont get me wrong, I have had a set of flathead heads on my CMM at work.
With some things thousands are critical.

 

I say - measure once, cut twice, remeasure, cut again, then just leave it - who cares!! it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out its going to be shorter after cutting it 3 times

 

Looks O K to me, has always worked!..........OLDBEET

 

The guys you mention should hang around a good allignment shop for a while (I own one) and it's a very rare modern factory built car thats within a eighth of an inch. I found no need for a dial indicater when building my A. Now beer, that was essential!

 

It's simple...............What are your standards?.............I think we should get better after each build, well that's what I shoot for....I bought an old Pontiac rear-end off of someone that was wielding his wire feed mig in his garage, and it took two of us and a big ass hammer to remove the axles after he welded on some simple brackets..........It only helps to understand what you are trying to do before you do it. I did not read the rear-end thread myself for I have no idea of what was said..............When I build something I always give 100% of myself................Pride man pride...........Use what ever method works for you...if good enough works for you, than run with it, if you want to research something then do it..........I believe this thread ties into Ryans thread "Define yourself"................Littleman......beware I have been known to be way off base.....

 

Common sence is using the proper tools to get the job done the right way period. Whether it is a mic. or a hammer. Do it in a way you know is right and you can be proud of and you should not have a problem.

 

I'd say that a little more perfection is needed in engine work to get it right then just set the points with a matchbook cover. .....Bob

 

I built my dragster chassis with saw horses and strings - no indicators needed there. Assembling the rear axle - you're darned right I had an indicator! I spent a lot of money on those parts - plan on putting some power to them AND I am sitting on them. I welded the housing - the welds were pretty AND had penetration - keep your birdshit welds - did I mention I was SITTING on this thing???
It's all about application and personal preference - no need for a dial indicator to french a set of tail lights, but when your tail is in close proximity to a potential grenade - you might sing a different tune.

The first driveshaft I ever welded worked perfect - but since I couldn't weld for shit back then it didn't take long for it to break. Next time I welded it a LOT better, but this time it wasn't straight and had a slight vibration - no biggie it seemed to go away after a few more RPM's - well at least until I was racing that Mustang in front of the Police Station - hit second gear and BAM!!! Me and the front 1/3 of my driveshaft parted company - not before ripping off both sides of the exhaust - whacking the floor and cutting the brake line (thank good I had a dual bore M/C) - now anything I beat on gets a driveshaft safety loop. I still weld my driveshafts but now I measure them with an indicator - pretty useful if nothing else as a reference point.
A fella once told me you couldn't cut a set of brake rotors on an engine lathe- bullshit I thought so I cut a pair - just to see. They were out about .0015" - I didn't have a spec, but it seemed small so I tried them - they worked perfect for years. Later I did another set, this tiem I was in a hurry and had them out .003" - I figured well this is ONLY .0015" more than the last time - can't possibly matter - it didn't the last time - so I threw them on. Guess what ??? Yep pulsations - I could feel it in the pedal. I still don't know what the official tolerance is but I know where I think the limit is.

Some of us measure just because we want to know. Nothing wrong with that?? Just a another way of learning.

Here's another thing to consider - in this modern world - there's always the reality of someone coming back on YOU. What you think and KNOW is good enough is pretty hard to tell someone over the internet - far easier to tell them a tolerance and a method for measuring it.

Last thought, At work I ocassionally have had to write the manuals in which our equipment is serviced. One day this service guy asks me why the hell I wrote such a "3rd grader" type manual. He went on to accuse me of doing things differently myself. And he was rather shocked when I agreed with him - I said, "... of course!! The SMART guys will develope their own short cuts - the less sharp or less experienced guys will need to do it by the book!!!! I can't write 2 manuals and I can't ASSUME every service guy is as sharp as I expect."

YMMV

 

My take is that you can only work on a hot rod with tools of that era like my 1930's black and decker drill or my 1923 starret micrometer or my 1940s gerstner machinest chest all handy for the non DRO bridgport i borrow at work. So i guess it's okay if the tool is pre 64 or shares the same body style as an earlier model one, should be the HAMB rule. Pretty obvius aint it... a damn site more obvius than spelling obvius

 

but seriously it's more about not being an idiot, most of the originals were built without complex tools but it depends on what you are doing

 

I will second that remark..
The problem lies with the "Engineers". Parts that worked fifty years ago will still work and will continue to work long after I'm gone. Working in the aircraft industry, I often have the college "Engineers" try to come in and re-invent the wheel. Most of the time, It just increases the price and kills the quality...

Remember this.........
Professionals built the Titanic...
Amateurs Built the Ark....

Spoons

 

My first roadster was built on a patio with a stick welder a left handed Cresent wrench and a flashlight.

 

I kant do it with out a magnetic protractor, harbor freight deal $3.99 got a couple of them use'um all the time

 

I agree Tommy, what ever happend to the framing square and string?

 

OK so long as I use THIS indicator I am OK then???

Glad we straightened that out!!!

 

I cut them damn thing three times and its still too short?!?

No really, I am glad to hear that everyone is pretty comfortable with "close enough," because no matter how precise I try to be that is what I end up with.

CHAZ

 

I'm in the same boat as you Tommy...I don't change my anti-freeze every other year, I drive throw away good tires at 5 years, and haven't ever purposely set out to change my brake fluid as preventative maintenance.

The cooling system continues to cool, the tires don't fail at the 61st month and brakes lines rust out before the brake fluid turns to whatever old brake fluid turns into.

Charlie

 

My measuring rope has never failed me! I've found that even if a frame is a little off, you can still get all four wheels pointing in the right direction. I tease my friends that have mills and lathes that they over complicate a lot of bracketry and other parts because they can. Then, is becomes expected of them that they will always have the trickest parts on their hot rods. Those of us that make the same items out of stock structural elements using a sawzall, cut off wheel or other simple tools get nods of approval from folks that understand and appreciate the simplicity of design and the economy of construction.

 

the bracket weld got to me as well.i build custom axles for a living.if you've ever looked at the front and rear axles under the new jeep wranglers you will see how many brackets get welded on one of those.i hate to gues how many of those ive built ..never once had a prob with warping ....but to each his own...

 

I'm very mechanically curious. I bought a 69 Elcamino from a friend that swore he checked compression, and did NOT have a dead cylinder. He added a 350HP cam, an intake from Edelbrock, and a Holley, etc to no avail. Leon, it's got a dead hole for god sakes! Anyway, he gets rearended, insurance cuts him a check, and sells me the car for cheap. Geez, 7's got no compression. I loosen the drivers side intake bolts, remove the passenger intake bolts, and sneak the head off without disturbing the intake, distributor, throttle linkage, or upper hose to the thermostat housing, lap in an exhaust valve from a junk head, impact the head back on, and towed my race car (on all 8 cyliders) for 2 years before selling it. Another time i had a 350 long block for sale and a guy wanted to hear it. I put an intake and carb i had lying around with new gaskets that i didn't want to ruin. So, i sealed them with hand soap because it was cleaner than grease, put the intake on with 2 bolts on each side, installed a magneto, a fired it on the ground for the guy.

 

My old man was a carpenter / cabinet maker---and I can't make 2 pieces of wood stay together---if I could weld it,maybe. But I'll never forget what he told my years ago---"tape measures can lie".He told me that he had made beautiful cabinets by eye--and terrible cabinets with a tape measure.He said to stand back a good 15--20 feet and see if it "looks right".Use a tape,but let your eye---or more than 2 eyes---to get a perspective. I built my cars to "look' right--everthing is square and equal--but if the wheelbase looks short---I stretch it a little. I think that all the cars we see that look "right " has been built something like this.And we've all seen cars the were technically correct--and look like crap.
I say---mark it out on the floor with chalk---and cut the shit out of it!!!

 

As long as my coupe has its Flux Capacitor tuned up and within spec I should do just fine...... I just have to remember to wear one of these before I work, no biggy!.....



On a more serious note, I agree with you, I see myself often falling into the "what if's" world when I'm out there in the garage,....I have to step back, stop working and remeber this is supposed to be fun, and not full of fret and worry about "getting it Just right!!!"

A good friend of mine responded to me after I asked him about minor misalignment,.....

"That's what slotted holes are for!!!...."

 

I also think its very important to work on your ride with someone else if at all possible. A fresh eye on things is worth its weight in gold!

 

I shoot for extreme perfection because I know what I actually achieve will be way less, I usually end up with 'not perfect but not bad enough to cut out' If I started out shooting for "close enough" i'd probably end up with the car going down the road sideways like a crab

 

ive heard old people refer to a time when
"sex was safe and hot rods were dangerous"

 

My dad was a Tool & Die maker, he has a non-running lawnmower because he doesn't have a Bridgeport to get the pulleys less than .003" out of round.

Then my late buddy Don, had a running lawnmover and jammed a wood screw in the hole and wrapped it with duct tape when the set screw on the pulley started slipping.

They had some interesting arguments...

 

Build what you like and stop worrying about what people think about it...

If you WANT to build an over-engineered car, what's stopping you? A bunch of RAT-RODDERS on a message board?

If you DON'T want to build an over-engineered car, who's forcing you? A bunch of ELITISTS on a message board?

If you don't/want to look at posts about over-engineered cars, what's forcing you?...

If you like a certain kind of car or a build style, why feel obligated to defend it? If it's appropriate for the HAMB, there are just as many folks on here that will like it as dislike it. If it's not appropriate to the HAMB, take it somewhere else and enjoy it there.

The bickering is all just white noise... If it adversly affects your ability to enjoy your car, you don't really like cars that much...

PASSION is about ignoring negativity/adversity to reach a GOAL...

You set the goal (whatever it is)... Now REACH it...

 

PS: How many people cans still read a vernier scale instead of the digital
or dial readout?


I can ..Ive built a bunch of cars with a tape and a level also> They were all nice cars and brought good money when sold! I do have a dial indicator at home as well as extra micrometers and dial calipers and scales but they are mainly there for emergencys. And its extras i dont need at work. They do come in handy but its not life or death if you dont have em. I can set up a straight axle with a magnetic protractor and my home made toe in gauge and ive set up MII's the same way . I did use my indicator on the new project a few weeks ago when i built my driveshaft. I put it in the car and checked the runout then tweaked it before i welded it! The only other time i needed it was on my old 34. We had a shake in the front i fought for 2 summers. I finally got the bright idea to jack it up and pull the wheels and indicate the wheel studs. One side was within 5 thou and the other was off 200! Ya i prolly could have set sumpin up by the studs and rotated it and just eyeballed it too. But at least we found the problem.
dave

 

How to read a Vernier scale...

http://www.upscale.utoronto.ca/PVB/Harrison/Vernier/Vernier.html

 

Heck, just lay em on a ruler....