The 1937 Aluminum heads ( 78 CC ) how rare are these things,or is it just a myth? Why is there so little information on them?
They were mainly used in colder climates like Canada and such due to the fact that the aluminum would react better to the cold than steel. Ford also used aluminum intakes for the same reason.
They were standard on cars for a while, and also used on cars in Canada, C78 casting numbers. Commercial and truck got iron heads. There were severe corrosion problems (as with the various '33-36 aluminum heads) and most cars wound up with the heads replaced with 77 (1937 commercial) iron heads--you rarely see anything else on these engines. It's hard to find good aluminum heads for any 21 stud, even though they were standard for several years. There were also 81A aluminum heads, also almost extinct due to rot. I think they changed the formula for the aluminum later--the later aluminum heads (Canadian) have a good survival rate.
HT8 78-6050,,would those be US made? and your saying they are out there and easy to find ,just that most are shot? Any idea what a set might go for?
I have (somewhere in my junk) a set of the aluminum heads as well as a large and small aluminum intakes (both single carb stock). Are they finally worth anything? I have an old flat track cam with the fiber gear somewhere too.
They are not easy to find in any condition because most rotted out long ago and were scrapped and replaced with iron. The "78" with no prefix would mean USA. The HT8 is a mystery--likely some date/foundry code, likely a later than production casting. I believe the iron heads were lower compression; don't have any reference materials here at work to check, but there's a page in the service bulletins listing CC's of heads and resulting ratios. 77 heads are iron commercial. Another moderately common head is a British Ford iron head with firing order info cast into the surface--don't remember the number, but likely E78. These 21 stud '37 engines were built in huge quantities in England during WWII and used in Pilots and various trucks into the 1950's, and lots of their parts were brought over by Joblot 30 years ago.
6.12:1 (alum.heads)-- 78 cc 7.50:1 (cast iron) But I only see cast heads in 37,,though I don't know if they had teh water fitting in the middle like the aluminum
ok silly question,,is there anything one could do present day that would help stop the corrosion? like could you run something in your coolant that might slow that down or something?
77 and 78 are both 1937 numbers. The water outlet would be in middle on both, though you will see front-pump heads on '37 engines sometimes because the engine could be retrofitted into '32-36 applications with the early outer parts.
Modern anitfreeze has anitcorrosion additives in it that didn't exist back when these engines were new. Remember, there was no "permanent" antifreeze back then; people ran a water/alchohol mix, or just water.
Antifreeze had to be regularly checked and topped up, too, because the alcohol boiled away. There were lots of home brew depression era farmer antfreezes, to, literally everything from salt to kerosene to honey was used. Most of the home styles had major probs, rotting rubber, metal, whatever, or clogging stuff up. Ford bulletins continually warn of the evils of non-Ford AF... Also, any headgasket leakage could introduce combustion fumes potentially capable of turning water into corrosive stuff.
The intakes are pretty much impossible to sell, especially if they would have to be shipped. I've used them for metal finishing practice, and that's about the best thing I've ever found to use them for. I sold a set of '34 aluminum heads for $60.00 once, but they were in my opinion barely useable if at all because of the corrosion in the water jackets. The pre-propylene glycol days were murder on aluminum heads- one of the reasons I don't trust old used heads very far.
SatanHerself, I think that IIRC our guys used to get hot water for coffee straight from the jeep radiator drain in WW2!
And if you get good ones, I wouldn't worry with modern coolant--all modern engines are mixes of aluminum and iron with brass fittings, and you don't see them sitting by the road in clouds of steam very often...
Interesting post, I have also wondered about use of original Aluminum heads with todays antifreeze. I have come to question why it seems to be a no no to run these (at least from the comments about just leaving the cast iron replacement on) when so many people run after market hi performance aluminum heads without a thought. Do you think that the alloy in the original heads was more likely to corode compared to modern aluminum, I am also of the opinion that the coolant used today is more forgiving of mixing steel with aluminum. At least that is the plan since I will be using some 21 stud aluminum heads I have found on my 36. Thanks for the post.
This is funny this post came up, I just bought two 37 aluminum heads, had them checked, and my luck one is good, one is bad. Anyone have a usable single? I am going to run a factory aluminum intake with a Vern Tardell "Slingshot" and the factoy aluminum heads on my 37, all polished up. It will give the neat look, but won't break the bank with 21 stud finned heads!!! I hope anyways
Well, I dug mine out and they have front outlets, say Made in Canada on them and are C8CM-B. I also found the intakes and the cam. I wqs told the cam came from a flat track racer but who knows. It looks like a little bigger lift but fairly short duration.
Yeah I know. The number is different too. They made heads in a few places and over the period of a few years. I need a site where I can look up the C8CM-B number and see what Canadian motor they came off of. With my luck it will be off a one year only industrial engine. The nice thing is they look like they are in great shape. The intakes I have are different too. One is about eighteen and a quarter inches long and one is about twenty one and a half. The cast iron with the side draft is the same size and patern as the bigger aluminum manifold. This stuff I've had since 1977 when I had my '53 F-100. When I bought the truck I wqas gonna pull the flattie out and put a small block Ford in. Then I fell in love with the flathead. Great motors.
C8CM=Canadian '49 Merc. I know the Ford version was only used for a short while and then replaced by iron. Dunno about the Merc, but there was at least a second generation of those in 1951, C1CM, so maybe they stayed in production. The C8BA Ford late ones are rare.
Little manifold V860, bigger is maybe 1937 85 HP, iron is a late Merc, there were several versions but PN will tell you which.
Thanks for the info Bruce. I was close. I thought the heads were probably late 40s Canadian Merc, still don't know what the -B stands for. Is there a good site for decoding part numbers for old flatheads? Thanks again
if correct water outlet in the center is 60hp heads i have a set of these aluminum heads to, mine are warped but got them for $5 just cause i needed buy something at the swapmeet i didn't need
Anyone got a realistic idea of what this stuff would be worth? I need an idea so I can sell to a HAMBer so give me real values and I'll sell for less.
I asked my cousin's uncle about the aluminum head thing on the flatheads when I was a kid, he was an old flathead mechanic back in the day. I saw some flatheads with aluminum heads and some with iron heads, He said that most of the time the aluminum heads were so corroded that you had to break them off to do a valve job, and replaced them with new iron heads. He said that he once had a small hole saw that cut the corrosion arround the studs, and that helped to get them off, but they were so badly corroded internally that they didn't help cooling matters much. Most of the time the heads had to be broken off in sections. He blamed the lack of a good coolant and the electrolytic coorosion that happened with iron and aluminum. Today they'd probably have a sacrificial anode inside the cooling system to prevent this from happening.
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