Im looking at buying these 8ba Offy heads from someone, and im not sure what to think of the pics he sent me. There is some corrosion around the water p***ages. Hard for me to decide if they are worth trying to run. Are they savable without too much work?? thanks
If it were me. Unless they are given to you dirt cheap. i would not use them. I'm sure you'll hear alot of stories about how a set like that or worse is used after flycutting the surface. Consider the corrosion in the water p***ages too. That will effect the turbulance if not the volume of flow. As touchy as flatheads are to get right on heat issues. I would invest in a new pair. But then again. If they are a rare pair or dirt cheap you could try them and definitely stick a gage on EACH HEAD TO MONITOR IT. pj
I'm not big on actually running used heads. There are a lot of unknowns after years of use. Have they ever been overheated badly- that could have warped them. And have they been machined in any non-stock ways after they came from Offy. The thing that actually bugs me most on those pics is it looks like they've been bead-blasted, and that's going to rough up the combustion chamber a lot. Smoother is definitely better on the combustion chamber. As for the water p***ages, they aren't too bad looking. I wouldn't pay more than $180.00 for the set, maybe $200.00 is the fins are perfect.
***** punches around chambers...maybe a precautionary/supers***ious move by first owner, maybe a history of leakage. Chambers are pitted as well--these have been sitting outside for a decade probably. Maybe/maybe nor useable, should be dirt cheap to allow for milling, polishing of chambers, maybe cuts needed over valves...strictly project heads for the joy of a challenge. Niot actually worth anything, since they are available new and all the work needed (as well as possibility of complete failure of salvage) probably will reach price of new ones in either $ or h***le. Would probably be worth trying to save if they were rarities, but they aren't. Way too much history shows in the pics.
8BA Offy heads are usually stamped with a number on the top right behind the thremostat housing. The number should be between .350 and .425. This number is the basic clearance for the valve to head dimension. The bigger the number the less compression ratio but allows for a larger cam lift. If these heads are stamped .375 or smaller I wouldn't touch them as they will require milling for a good seal on the head gasket. Also look at the head deck surface between the cylinders (#1to#2, #3to#4) as these spaces are close together and a small pit could cause a gasket failure.
I'm with the others - I've run old heads after they've been slightly milled, but I did it knowing it was a gamble (I got lucky) & they weren't currently produced heads either. This pair looks sandblasted - hard to gauge how deep corrosion is due to lack of contrast. Another bad spot on 8BA is the long oval-ish water ports in the corners - very thin here between chamber & water
Then ... add the fact that the spark plug holes (threads) look like they're pretty badly "chewed up." Would need helicoils or thinserts; is there enough "meat??"
Since they're Offenhausers, which are still available new, I wouldn't bother with them. As others have said, you may end up with the price of a new pair invested before they're runnable.
I as an enthusiast would never run a set of very well used heads like that, nor do I like to see even an old version of our heads "out there" that could possibly have problems, I'd rather send a set of new ones to that person (for a slight charge) & have them send me their old ones so I can show potential customers what the actual differences are. Just ask Flat Ernie in the above post. That is what I did for him. In AV8's book w/Tardel one of the Cardinal Rules of reliable flathead building is to start with a new set of heads. The other thing is not to overbore. Go with a set of new ones, you'll be money ahead no matter who's product you buy.
Well I have a question on used heads then. I'm looking at a pair of iron heads "Rocket" and have been chromed. They look good but not sure what to offer him and could they be run? are they rare? A for the offfy set I would stay away from common used heads that aren't cheap. I know this and mine are hanging on the wall. thanks John
Rocket Heads: There were two types of Rocket Heads. I believe both were cast iron (Rockets for sure). The "Rocket" & "Rocket Racer". The later will have the Racer cast below the Rocket. Some guys claim that this was a great design. Sure looks different than the other & the old ads. state that it's a high turbulance chamber design. I don't know about all that for the Ford design is high turbulance as well. Look them over VERY carefully for these heads (Rockets I know for sure, not 100% on the Rocket Racer units) had a tendancy to crack. I believe that is why you don't find many around. Good luck. They sure are different & neat though!
I'm not sure if they are later ones yet till I see them. I know he said they were finned and in chrome.. Do you know were they had a problem cracking and $$$ amount. It's a freind of a freind and don't want to underprice or overprice them. He a nice guy and just want to be fair.. thanks for the help John
Damn, John. I knew you were going to ask a follow up to my useless banter. Well, I don't know what a "fair" price would be. Right now "fair price" is sore subject with me for what I feel is fair & what guys who buy on E-bay think is fair are two different things. Anyway, If the chrome is good & not flaky (I wonder if he chromed the combustion chamber which would not be good in my opinion) & the heads are not cracked or milled I would think in the $300-$600 range. I'm not 100% sure on where they would crack but if I recall correctly I think they would crack over the valve pocket/relief area & from the spark plug hole to a coolant p***age as well. If so, there cooked! Look them over really well. They should have at least .360" of clearance for the lift. If not, they have been milled which I would stay away from them if that was the case. Good luck. If there is anything else I can do I'll try to help you out. Tim
Thanks Tim for the reply and I feel the same about the evelbay when it can drive up a price on something useless.. The fellow that has them is a good guy so he'll be fair. If I buy them, I want to use them so I was thinking the 500 clams if they are nice. He's suppose to have some other goodies as well. I have to say it's perfect timing too I need some speed goodies for the vicky.. thanks John
The Kogels being in mfg'd in cast iron seem to have worn better through the years, The few sets that I have seen have been in pretty good shape. Their combustion chambers are a little different and I know that they are heavier than their aluminum compe***ion, and that aliminum disipates the heat better which in theory back when the aluminum heads were used-even by Ford was supposed to maximize the charge in the cc/cyl for greater hp. As for an offer. Do what you think is right? If they are within reason-then make him an offer. Hope that this helps.
I've been half-heartedly looking for some Kogels for a blown project for a while - I've also been "warned off" about the cracking, but the couple of sets I've seen didn't have any VISIBLE cracks. And Cyclone Kevin is dead on - I asked him a question about an old set of Cyclone heads & he immediately suggested I trade him the old ones plus a very (overly?) modest amount of money for a brand new set. He definitely lost money on the deal, but felt strongly about keeping the brand name strong. I hemmed & hawed a bit as I felt guilty about the deal somewhat, but in the end, he was right - it would have taken much more work & money to get the old set workable and in the end, I took his offer. He sent a brand new set & they're earmarked for the next build! Looks like the QC on the new ones is better than the old (of course, it could just be old age too!) to boot. Thanks again, Kevin!
Don't do it. I restored some evans heads and it cost me a small fortune between welding and machining and they looked alot better than those do.
I bought some off epay,looked not too bad.Discription said (had been sitting in a car in our yard,looked to be surfaced)I guess he didn`t know how they got that way! Should have read the rest of the discription(run them or use them for garage art)He was right! the nice silver paint and the 1/8 in. surface job look real nice on my garage wall.............no I`m not telling how much I paid
Just bought a set of Kogel Rocket Racer heads off of e-pay, haven't got here yet. I have my fingers crossed. By the way I paid $500 & change + shipping.
Cool, I didn't know that the heads were Kogel , just Rockets. I have been digging thru the Little pages ( early 1950's hop-up,rod custom etc) to find them,go figure wrong name. I had hoped to find some info on them.. Once again the HAMB is a great source for helping out.. Well I guess the best part about this is I'm going to be touching the good before I buy.. That has always been my problem with Epay, just don't know till you get them. I just got a pair of Grancor Heads off ebay and they were just ok, both need some love. I have been looking for a set to go along with my intake so I can toss them on the coupe.. is the compression or CC on the heads? thanks John
Interesting thing at the bottom of the ad..."81AS 6050"...those are Ford over the counter "Denver" heads, not anything by Kogel itself. The great cheater head of the past--allegedly made for high al***ude and gas fueled Fords, but I'm guessing actually made for just what they were used for...to give Ford racers a leg up.
Rob, if you don't own a machine shop these fall into the category of garage art; I think that it is prudent to remember that some of this stuff is rare because (1) it wasn't a very good performer and didn't sell well and (2) some were poorly manufactured and did not last under heavy use. Not everything from the flathead era was a good product and most of it was produced without any flow data to back them up. E gay is flooded with stuff that is overpriced because it was junk to start with; now it is simply "old&overpriced" junk.
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