IMHO The Hummers are ****, not nearly enough power for the weight 316HP + 6400LBS = 17sec quarter mile. If GM wants to keep from going bankrupt they need to offer something people want to buy. I suggest they remake the 57 Chevy; it should look the same as the original and have a 300HP 283, 5-speed manual with 4.11 gears. If they could sell that for $20,000 everyone would buy it.
I would so rent that. i want to sit in that office and stare at I-75 and throw empty beer cans at big buck brewery
Would be cool as an indoor go cart track too. We already drive full size cars around on the first floor anyway....up the escalators, add a few jumps, down the escalators..L.A. Collesium style. Then there's the road course out back along Squirrel rd.
Well, GM and Chrysler are the only two American auto companies left worth a ****...so I wouldn't feel too bad seeing them become one, myself!! Maybe then GM could kick Toyota back across the Pacific and out of our country for good...and make the U.S. STRONG again!!!!
Sounds just like what went on in England with BMW and Rover. BMW sold off Jaguar and Land Rover to Ford (and it is rumoured that Ford have now bought the rights to the Rover name to protect Land Rover) as they were duplicating BMWs own products. They kept the best bit of new design for themselves, the New Mini, and sold of the rest which in relatively short order imploded. The Chinese bought the remnants and promptly shipped all the plant to China. Exit one century of car making in central England. Maybe the Germans are still pissed at us for loosing two world wars?
What a heated topic but I gotta put in my 2 cents here.. I a car guy plain and simple I respect most cars and can find something I like about them but, ****ing American cars now a days **** *** my old man had a new mustang and he took it in for wheel bearings dealer treated him like **** and he could not get a rental and they would have the car for 3 or 4 days for a ****ing wheel bearing.. Yes hummer ****s we all know it and they start falling apart at 5k ask me how i know. But one thing Toyota and Nissan and Honda have going for them and BMW and Mercedes uhhh I don't know better styling reliable affordable cars. I ****ing love ford motor company but they don't make **** that I would want to buy not even the F-150's even. Gm wont buy Chrysler and the Chinese wont buy them. As far as kicking the Import car companies out of the US I say give Ford/GM/Chrysler 10-15 years to play catch up fix their quality issues and then I think everything will be ok all the old people that have been at those companies too long will be dead and maybe some young blood to come in with new idea's.. This makes me think back to the 50's - 70's the big three were competing like crazy for business and guess what who won? We did we got some bad *** cars from the factory and they were changing things up every few years to stay compe***ive not like now a days from the American companies I cant say Big 3 because it is not true.. So give the American companies a few years to catch up and get their heads out of their ***es and then things should be interesting and sales will come back up in the mean time don't feel guilty for thinking about buying a Toyota buy it and enjoy it rather then buy American and get pissed off every time you have to take it to the dealer ship for your bad gearbox at 5k(H2), Broken exhaust manifolds(Hemi Charger), Horrible Interior Issues(Any Chevy) Blowing headgaskets and other major motor issues on your new diesel(Fords new 6.0) Or stripping out the threads on your spark plugs or having them break off(fords 5.4 and v10 series). -Tom
A few notes... 1. Watch what happens to Delphi and their bankruptcy.... I predict that GM will follow suit in the next few years. I think it is a combination of union busting and a means of taking jobs out of the country (i.e. China, because even Mexican wages are too high to compete.) and avoiding paying pensions. Before it's all said and done, the sons-of *****es that are running the company will make out like bandits, meanwhile thousands of people will lose there livelihoods. There were several plants here in Dayton, right now they are buying everyone out, which floods the job market with people that are used to making 20-odd dollars an hour that are now forced to make $10, which will hurt the local economy, eventually the state, and the Nation in time. The Delphi thing was set in place years ago, mostly because of a Union Strike by the GM component groups in the early '90's. It was set to fail. And be a test bed for GM's financial plans. The only thing is that no one predicted that the Bankruptcy rules were going to change, which caused the company to file a little prematurely. 2. Until the government makes foreign companies (Toyota, Honda, etc.) play by the same rules as the domestic companies, the foreign companies will always have an advantage. Toyota has bazillion acres in Georgetown KY, they dont pay the same taxes as Ford or GM with a comparable or smaller plant. 3. There have been over a 100,000 jobs eliminated from the big 2 1/2 in the past year. Meanwhile we have a president that says that the job market is growing.... True there are new jobs being created, but they are paying under $10 an hour, whereas the jobs lost were paying over $20 an hour. 4. There are way too many Chiefs and not enough Indians in American Auto companies. There is way too much greed and selfishness on top. CEO's (generally) do not care about anything except their own bank accounts. I think Iaccoca was the last one that was half company oriented. There is nothing those ***holes do that makes them deserving of $10million a year + bonuses. We figured out that it was cheaper to let J. T. Battenberg (former Delphi CEO) **** his pants and pay 3 guys $50K per year to wipe his *** and dress him in a new $500 suit than to let him go **** for 10 minutes a day. WTF!?! 5. Until we treat imported cars the same as our cars are exported, there will always be a trade imbalance. The cost of an American car in Japan is an easy 15% more expensive than the same car is here. The cost of a Japanese car in Japan vs, the cost of the same car here is minimal. The same boats take cars in both directions, just not equal in volume. As a former Delphi employee, and now an employee of Mitsubishi, I have seen both sides of the fence. Until the governement levels the playing field, domestic companies will continue to fall. Not to force my political views on anyone, but I am for a semi-isolationist, minimalist government, yet I feel the *******s in Washington need to step up and take care of their cons***uents. Take care of imminient danger, otherwise take care of our own. Traditional values, Traditional Hot Rods, that's the way it should be...
Toyota, Honda and now Hyundai have it figured out. Build a quality car at a reasonable price and people will buy it. When the US automakers figure that out, we'll have it made. It has nothing to do with pensions and whatnot, because they spend close to just as much on CEO salaries and benefits. Jay
There are some good points here, however some need clarification: 1) For all practical intents and purposes these days, domestic car manufacturer quality is on par with Japanese. The low end of the quality scale? Land Rover and to a lesser extent, Mercedes. The real determinant is defects per 100 vehicles - the differential between the best and mid pack is only a handful of defects - meaning the range is a narrow one - they're all good - within range 2) The industry has, and will continue to be, rife with mergers and acquisitions, as that is the nature of business. in '54, Nash bought Hudson and effectively boned my grandfather after 26 years. He died six weeks later, brokenhearted. I'm seeing the same sort of thing in this nexk of the woods now - career auto guys accepting buyouts and keeling over before they cash their first check. Some keep their jobs, others lose. 3) The core issue for compe***iveness is BUSINESS PROCESS. The domestic mfgrs have used the 'build more of the same' manufacturing philosophy since 1913, and it's been really successful for 90 years. The market is fractioning off into smaller and smaller niches these days, though - and the vast infrastructure of 50+ year old plants (more or less) can't currently support flex manufacturing to the level they need to to really make $$ 4) Legacy costs are a HUGE issue. It's a promise made to our parents - work for us in a dark, smoky, windoless building doing the same damned thing for 30 years, and we'll take care of you in your old age. To remain compe***ive, we reduced the number of workers in the plants from a high of nearly 60,000 at the Rouge in 1938 to prolly a tenth of that today. As a result, the bennies paid into the fund by one guy go to two retirees - one man feeds three mouths. That cost is over $1000/vehicle these days; roughly equivalent to the profitability differential between Japanese and domestic product. The really ****y part of this process (besides watching friends die from stress) is that when (not if) one of the three remaining manufacturers go down, the others will be healthy. It's like three hunters trying to outrun a hungry bear. One guy is laughing while he runs, as he knows he doesn't have to outrun the bear - he only has to run faster than the other hunters. finally - look to the British motorcycle industry, the British car industry, and the American bicycle industry for parallels. Those industries are gone, but the nameplates live on - with a little script below which reads, 'Made in China'. It's coming our way like a runaway frieght train. Are you ready? Wal-Mart wages will be the order of the day, man.
If it were only that simple...get rid of currency manipulation by the Japanese / Chinese / Korean governments and we might get a clearer picture. It's been known that Japan has kept the value of the yen artuficially low to the dollar, to make their manufacturers more profitable. On a good note, a supplier I deal with is moving manufacture of some components back to the US from China. Why, because transportation costs of getting said component here makes it worthwhile just to make it here in the first place. One small victory. In a hundred years what nameplates will our descendands be rodding??
The so-called "quality issues" between Toyota and the domestic automakers is part of what I've long called "The Big Lie"...but Toyota has been force-feeding that Lie to the American public for long enough that many believe it...and as the saying goes "Perception IS Reality" in the marketing world. Fact is, Toyota falls WAY short on quality in the 'real world'...but people who own them are usually so brainwashed they just refuse to admit it to themselves. A friend of mine has a new Prius that is riddled with defects and warranty issues and it spends more time in the shop where the 'technicians' simply replace the spark plugs and send it back to him with the problems still existing! Yet, he says "It's a good little car...we love it!". My dad has towed his Toyota home dead at LEAST five times that I know of...yet he'll fix it every time and be right back to walking in a month or so when it dies again from yet ANOTHER mechanical failure! Just open your eyes and look around...remember all those American cars of "inferior quality" that were built in the 70s? You still see them on the road, dont ya? (I'm driving one myself!) How many Toyotas from the 70s do you see out there? Last one I can recall belonged to another brainwashed friend who drove a ****py blue 76 Corolla into the ground in the late 80s before it finally couldn't be band-aided back together any longer. I've seen MAYBE one or two Toyota pickups from maybe the late 70s or very early 80s since then...with the beds and doors that you can see right through with the gaping rust-holes in 'em...but that's it! Where ARE all these "superior quality" Toyotas TODAY??? That's right...dead and gone. Yet, "The Big Lie" lives on. To anyone who cares to do some checking, the cars with the BEST quality rating in the WORLD have been Buicks the past several years...but you won't read that in the heavily slanted media such as Consumer Reports...the medium Toyota used to help it sell "The Big Lie" all these years...but you will find it in sources such as BusinessWeek and others if you look. The American automakers have never built inferior quality cars, and Toyota has never built even a decent quality car...but the Perception a****st the average idiot on the street is that somehow those magical little ****-boxes from Japan are somehow superior to our cars...as the Japanese laugh all the way to the bank. Sad, really...the power of ignorant people in large numbers!!
Hack hit it dead on. I retired from Chrysler in 2003 after 32 years there. I seen it all from the purchase of AMC in 87 to the so called merger in 97 (Bob Eaton sold us out). After the merger the Germans cleaned house got rid of any body over 50 . Tom Gale styling VP and Bob Lutz President were the real car guys once they were gone so went chrysler. The japanese beat us in manufacturing not engineering and the big one PRESUMED QUALITY by marketing skills. We could not market a small car and make a profit back In the 70's when the fuel prices sky rocketed and when we scrambled to make the econ **** boxes they were bad compared to the Japanese cars so the perception grew from back then that the small cars were not equal in quality. That is not true any more and has not been for a long time. The trouble is we still can not make the same profit the foreign auto makers enjoy because of the overhead here in the U.S. as to Japan , Korea, or China. I think the big three are fighting for their lives right now and are willing to do anything to survive including buying out a rival. We need the American government to wake up and help these companies just like the governments of Japan, China, and Korea do for their companies or else what will be the next American icons to fall? Man this pisses me off!
They haven't got their heads out of the ***es for more than 2 seconds over the last 30+ years, what makes you think they will start now ? Not going to happen. GM is busy investing money in China, and getting more and more parts made there. So much for Baseball,Apple Pie,and Chevrolet. GM used to lead the industry, now they are followers. Like Sheep.
I agree with Hack to some extent. My father in law, a shrewd guy if there ever was one, did all his research, spent close to a year looking for a new car. (This was '03). Went with a Camry, due to all the "hype". Had the car til payoff (3 years) and got rid of it. Why? It was a bigger POS than the Taurus it replaced. I must say this, I do like the new Freestyle, but someone has GOT to do something with the Ford interior designers CAD programs that lets them draw CURVES!!!!! It's got too many damn straight lines! Jay
its indicitive of everything else american, its all going to hell. coorporations tell the government want they want and the government steps to. that goes for everything from the war in iraq, to this merger, to why it is that there are 4 companies who own all conventional media outlets, to why theres no border inforcement for products or people, to why no one saves like they used to before,and so on and so on. eventually we will all work THE COMPANY and THE COMPANY will supply you with what they think you need at any given time. America's dying gang, wether you realize it or not. So go get mad and fix things.
It the only reason Toyota is out selling these far superior American cars is because they have been force feeding the "Lie" to Americans than maybe the American Car manufactures should open ther eyes get off their greedy ***es and do the same thing. It's called advertising. If you do it right it works if you don't it doesn't. Anyone can site examples of certain cars that have had problems it means nothing. I can let you know that my family has owned Japanese cars almost exclusively for the last 15 years and I can say that not one of them has had any major work done to it. I can also say that the American truck I bought and the American car that my brother bought have both been pieces of ****. In 6 years I have probably put $4000.00 into repairs. Does it mean all Japanese cars are good and all American cars are bad No. But it does mean in my situation there is a decided quality difference. Also to compare 1970's Japanese cars to anything is ridiculous. They were cheap and meant to be that way. That's how they got into the market. The same way the Koreans did it in the 90's. I have nothing against American cars or the companies but to say that the only reason that Americans think that Japanese cars are good is because of brainwashing doesn't say much about the American public and maybe if they are that stupid the American companies shouldn't survive.
After working for all 3 major brands in service departments, I don't think GM will buy Chrysler. It doesn't make any sense . I would certainley hope that they wouldn't andjjust let Chrysler die the death that it should have years ago when the US Government bailed them out. The quality at Chrysler is the worst, I couldn't believe all the service problems when I was at the Dodge Chrysler dealership
it was just the other day I heard that GM and Ford were thinking of merging! Talk about the end of the whos fastest wars!. HELL I think all three ought to merge and Kick the **** out of all the imports. They could call it AMERICAN MOTORS!
For you guys saying we should only buy american, do you relize that over 90% of toyotas and hondas that are sold here in the states are made here also! If you got rid of these 2 companies, what about the the job loss there! I work for American Honda which is its own company and seperate from Honda in Japan.
Although I won't disagree about the jobs held by american workers....the ovewhelming distinction is that the profits from these companies go back oveseas!!!!
I have to second Hacks motion about the "Big Lie" the only reason we were attracted to Japanese cars in the first place is because they were CHEEP gas sippers..if they were so good technilogically where are all the old ones? they've been here since 1965..I've got a 77 Chevy Pickup,third engine, starting in on its second million miles..even Consumer Reports magazine always had Buick a solid third....could someone explain to me how the American Honda Motor Co. is a different Co. than Japanese Honda? profits don't go back to Japan? upper management isn't from Japan?
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