What are you guys using to secure your brake lines, wiring, fuel lines? What the hell do you guys do that aren't boxing your frames? I was going to run something like the stainless line clamps, but the only way to do that is tap through my frame. The last thing I want is bolt holes showing on the outside. I talked to one of Kugel guys and he said that no one in his 13 years there had ever brought up this issue???? Super helpful, but he didn't know of a solution aside from boxing my frame. Does any one make a weld on pad that is tapped? Or should I just grab some strap, drill it, and sit and tap holes while I watch TV? Then cut to the size I need. Seems like I saw on a Reality Build show some one doing ch***is work where they just welded pads on that were pretapped and all you had to do was screw the line clamp to it, and viola!! I want a clean look but with unboxed rails using this type of line hold downs but am open to suggestions and guidance.
Your solution sounds like a good one to me. Your other option might be to run your lines either along the upper or lower frame flange and screw directly to the flagne it won't be as ugly as drilling through the outer web of the fraim rail.
Or you could cut the heads off some bolts, weld them to the frame and just put the clamp on and tighten a nut down. You wouldn't be able to see anything from the outside that way.
using a tapped strap will work but it will be a pain to get the screws the right lenght. If i were you i'd mount the line on the inside of the top or bottom of the rail as suggested. Just tap or bolt through. As far as clamps go check pages 1438 and 1439 of www.mcmaster.com. I use these clamps on all my projects. They are alot less bling bling than the street rod components and a whole lot less money.
"I'm diggin' on the welded stud approach. Seems to be the easiest solution." True... this would be decent solution but welding a tiny little #10 screw might not be easy at all. your dealing with a cross section of a little over .100 after grinding off the head. getting a decent flush mount weld on that will be difficult.
make up some small tabs of your own{put a small depression area in the end} and weld one end to frame....go gently with small tack hammer to clamp over line.....no one takes lines off/on/off enough for them to be worthy of being removable, surely?.............seen it done, worked well.....Bert
I did this....although I didn't cut the heads off....gives you more to weld to. I ground the markings off the tops of the heads so they were nice and flat first. Used 1/4" NC 3/4" long. Then used nylocks to secure my lines.
Would you be opposed to having exposed rivets on the rails? Restoration Supply Company sells threaded rivets. They have heads that look like rivets, but they are threaded like a bolt. www.restorationstuff.com
If you do weld bolt heads to the inside of the frame rail to work as studs, you could use stainless steel bolts so you won't have to worry about rust on the threads. That's a good way to make a ground stud too. I slip a piece of copper tubing over the threads of the bolt to keep the weld spatter from messing up the threads (a little anti-spatter spray on the threads helps too). If you weld small normal cad or zinc plated bolts, the plating will burn off and turn to powder from the heat of the welding, and you'll wind up with bare steel that will start rusting right away. I guess some grease would keep them from rusting for a while. There are some OEM cable clamps that have kind of a jaw with serrated teeth that you just press over the inside edge of the frame rail. They're made out of spring steel and they hold securely and clamp the hoses or bundles of wires pretty well. They'd be fine if they're somewhere out of sight.
Check out "Elevator Bolts" on page 3079 of McMaster Carr. Big, thin, flat head heads on them. Perfect to weld to your frame.
That will work,or get fancy and drill thru the bottom of the frame,countersink the holes,and install with #10 countersunk screws and nuts. Bottom of the frame will then be smooth.
All great ideas. Thanks all for the support of my diatribe of solutions including the threaded plate to weld in. I had thought about chopping all-thread and welding on and bolting to it, but that is SOOOO hard to do and get good lasting results. I'm really leaning this way or the countersunk path right now but going through the the top of the frame then welding then grinding smooth. This **** is freaking hard to figure out when you are trying to keep from boxing your rails, but since its all open for the eye to see hard as hell to hide. Oh the conundrum. If anyone comes up with a source for 3/8" mild steel weld on tabs with a nice tapped hole dead center let me know...
There are some things called "Unistrut Nuts" or "Superstrut Nuts" that plumbers use to bolt things to Unistrut or Superstrut steel channel walls. Unistrut (or Superstrut) channel is a U-shaped channel they run along the walls or ceiling to hang lots of plumbing from. It has rolled in lips. The Unistrut nuts go in behind those lips and grip on the backside of the lips when you start tightening the bolts. The nuts are rectangular about 1-3/8" by about 7/8" and about 3/8" to 1/2" thick depending on what size threads they have. They have two corners rounded off slightly so that they can rotate into place behind the lips of the Unistrut. You can get Unistrut nuts with a variety of threaded holes (the threaded holes go all the way through the nuts). I have used them before to weld threaded tabs behind holes in the top of a frame rail. It saves time from having to fabricate them yourself from bar stock. The holes are dead on in the middle of the rectangular shape. Since they're fairly large, there's lots of room to make a strong weld. You can get them at any local large plumbing place -- especially those that deal with industrial plumbing rather than just household plumbing. You can get them either with a spring or without a spring. It's easy to pull the spring out if you don't want it. The springs are just to hold the unistrut nuts in place in the unistrut to make it easier to get the bolts started. They are very strong. You might want to grind off the plating where you're going to weld them and don't breathe the zinc or cad fumes when you weld them.
Thise have about a million uses as I'm looking at them. Thanks, I'm going to go see about grabbing a mess of them. May not use them this time around, but those look handy as hell. Generally how thick are they?
Usually they're as thick or thicker than the diameter of the bolt they fit. Like the ones threaded for 1/4" are 1/4" thick, and the ones threaded for 3/8" are 3/8" thick (or sometimes 1/2" thick), and the ones threaded for 1/2" are 1/2" thick. Unistrut was the original company that started them, but other companies like "Superstrut" copy them. They're pretty much interchangeable. Another thing they're handy for is to weld them onto the bottom of the legs of tables to screw threaded adjustable feet into them. Another thing that's handy for welding behind holes are unplated extra heavy square nuts that McMaster-Carr sells. Square nuts are easier to weld than hex nuts, and they give you more weld area. If you can find them in the "extra heavy" variety, they are thicker and wider and are less likely to have threads get distorted after welding. After you weld a nut to anything, it's a good idea to run a tap through them after they cool down because the threads often get distorted a little. With those big Unistrut nuts though, there isn't really that problem because you're welding so far away from the threads. For welding nuts behind holes in a frame, I machined a little jig out of 1" aluminum rod to center the bolt in the hole. Like for 3/8" threaded nuts sitting behind 1/2" holes in the steel, the aluminum thing has a 3/8" hole through it with a 1/2" diameter step that protrudes into the 1/2" hole, then I use a 3/8" stainless steel bolt to hold everything in place (I spray anti-spatter spray on the bolt which makes it easier to get back out again). I tack the nut on both sides and then remove the bolt and the jig, then finish weld it. I use spacers or washers so that the bolt doesn't go beyond the threads of the nut so that weld spatter won't get on the threads and make it a pain to get out again. For very light duty stuff, McMaster-Carr also sells "weld nuts" which are like unplated T-nuts that you weld behind holes in sheet metal. They're formed out of thin mild steel. They're not strong enough to use for something like holding the body to the frame though -- they're strictly for light duty stuff.
i like the line clamps shown, but I generally use rubbercoated clamps.. I would use a different approach to mounting the line clamp to the frame rail.. If the rails are boxed, I'd drill a hole in the boxing plate the diameter of the shank on one of these "T- NUTS" and then weld the t' nut around the perimiter.. http://www.stafast.com/products/tnuts.html I buy them at sears hardware, they come in a large varitey of sizes and the "prongs" can be cut off or flattened (they are only sheetmetal) I would then use a cap screw or similar to attach the line clamps to the ch***is.. good luck PLEASE NOTE. T- NUTS SHOULD only BE USED FOR APPLICTIONS WHICH ARE NOT LOAD BEARING IN NATURE.. I.E.. MOUNTING FUEL LINES, AND SIMILAR HOSES, PERHAPS AFFIXING YOUR BATTERY CABLE BUT I WANT IT TO BE CLEAR TO THE DUMB*** RAT RODDERS OUT THERE THAT THESE SHOULD NOT BE USED TO MOUNT YOUR SUSPENSION HARDWARE..
My dad made me a bunch of these out of 1" nylon rod. He sliced 'em down to .25" thick and made a jig for his router table and his drill press. They keep the lines from contact with anything harder than they are and only take one screw. I've used self-drilling screws on my frame, but I tapped the holes I drilled in thicker my boat trailer frame to hold them. McMaster-Carr sells 1" nylon rod for $3.25 a foot.
Well here's what I settled on. -I drilled the "C" on the top of the frame rails. -Cut All thread in 3/4" pieces -Then added a nut but left about and 1/8 of all thread hanging out the backside of the nut. -Then I held the the piece up from underneith or should I say inside of the "C"until the piece was bottomed out on the nut. -Then I welded up the hole from the top making sure to weld the end of the All thread as well. So now I have, or will have since I'm not done, but a row of studs haning down from the inside of the top of the "C" like stalac***e's. I settled on this idea, for two reasons, I'm cheap, and I already had the all thread.
Why grind the head off? If you weld around the head, #1 it gives you more to weld to and #2 your welds won't mess up any of threads, leaving the bolt fully threaded. I've done a few of these on my truck in the areas where foresight was involved.
On the ch***is we build we use the SS rubber lined Adel clamps from Gardner Wescott and drill and tap the boxing plates for a 1/4 co**** by 1/2 long SS ****on head. Done 100s that way
Understood. But the point of my questioning was, "What are guys doing that aren't boxing their rails?" No one wants to drill and tap throw a "C" channel and have all of those exposed threads hanging out the other side for everyone to see. I found my solution, but what IS everyone else doing? I know I'm not the only clown out there that had this problem, or should I see slight issue.
i bought a box of stainless set screws and drill and tap then weld in place. then finish off the weld. the allen head hepls give good penatration. any i tested broke the screw before the weld broke mcmaster car also sells these that work great for all kinds of things Weld Studs with Underhead Projections Also known as weld screws, these studs have weld nibs or bosses under the stud head and mount through a hole in the base material. Spot welders or MI6 welders may be used with these parts. Made of plain C1008-C1010 welding quality steel. Length is measured from under head. Screw Head Head Pkg. Size Lg. Dia. Ht. Qty. Per Pkg. 6-32 5/8" 0.323" 0.052" 100 93865A120 $6.61 8-32 3/8" 0.385" 0.068" 100 93865A135 6.61 8-32 1" 0.385" 0.068" 100 93865A155 8.05 10-24 3/8" 0.448" 0.068" 100 93865A160 7.69 10-24 1/2" 0.448" 0.068" 100 93865A165 8.43 10-32 1/2" 0.448" 0.068" 100 93865A190 8.70 10-32 5/8" 0.448" 0.068" 100 93865A195 9.15 10-32 1" 0.448" 0.068" 100 93865A205 13.54 1/4"-20 3/8" 0.575" 0.083" 100 93865A215 13.54 1/4"-20 1/2" 0.575" 0.083" 100 93865A220 14.84 1/4"-20 5/8" 0.575" 0.083" 100 93865A225 14.96 1/4"-20 3/4" 0.575" 0.083" 100 93865A230 14.85 1/4"-20 1" 0.575" 0.083" 100 93865A235 14.95
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