Saw these on eBay, expensive! How do they work? Drum or disk? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KINM...tegoryZ34199QQihZ001QQitemZ110095684947QQrdZ1
NOT being a smart ***, but do a search!! I asked this same question about 2 years ago,before they were "popular" and got a huge amount of info on here?!?!?! maybe it is all still there but you gotta search for it! EVERY possible answer to every possible question is there. also, they DO NOT WORK in real life as well as the do in theory!!! ...Ken
Being a smart ***- They were NEVER "unpopular" (look at the date on that magazine story). WOW!!! TWO YEARS AGO??? You were SO AHEAD of the crowd!
what the **** are you talking about !!! I never said I was ahead of the crowd!! re-read what I said,,,I merely stated I had ASKED the same thing 2 years ago!!!! and up until recently they were NOT talked about too much so ---I--- didn't think they were very popular!!! I realize "back then" they were -the ****- but not many people these days seem to know a whole lot about them, other than the people with those trikes, or whatever they were on for a while!!!...Ken
Sorry to stir things up....didn't mean to get people riled up enough to start dropping the "F" bomb. I saw them on eBay, have no interest in buying them but thought some people here might like to look at them. Plus, I was curious as to what they were designed like. The 2 year old post did have lots of information, but no link to the eBay pictures.
I personally don't like 'em. Looks to me like a bunch more stuff to break, or go wrong. Too funky for my blood, besides, look at the price of those things. Sheesh.
If you are comparing these brakes to a modern style disc brake, they obviously are not going to be "worth a ****". These brakes were the first disc style brakes to come to market. When these brakes were first introduced after WWII by Joseph Milan (i.e. Milan brakes) they were a huge improvement over the OEM brakes. Several of both of these style of disc brakes were used on race cars. Mostly Indy style and the drivers thought that "they were very fine brakes". In a test in a '59 issue of Car Repair Handbook, they were tested against 3 other mid-50s OEM brakes and outperformed ALL of them in several tests. Kinmont later got the design from Milan and did some improvements like producing the front 'pressure plate' out of a cast aluminum instead of flimsy stamped steel. The reason these things are worth so much today is because they were worth so much back when they were new. The ONLY drawback to a Kinmont/Milan disc brake conversion was the cost. Ultimately, I'm guessing, this led to the demise of the the production of Kinmonts/Milans. Now that they are incredibly rare, perhaps moreso than say, a set of Ardun Heads, is the reason for the high price. Just like ANYTHING else that is rare and old, lots of adjustment is needed to get these to perform ideally, that is if you can find someone familiar enough with them to adjust them correctly. Even then, they probably won't perform as well as modern discs, but the cool factor is way beyond what a modern disc brake setup can offer.
Kinmonts-Popular=Yes! Kinmonts-A-FORD-able=Never! Long before Tom Senter's article was written back in 1973, Gene Scott had a list of Garage Sale Items, The were like as much as $1000.00 back then, although they were a complete set of four with instructions and all. His company still has em! They're like 15-20k now! One of my all time fave Deuce roadsters have them on & it belongs to **** Wade. It was Deuce Day! Thats's the 1st car that I can actually say I saw em on many years ago. Do they actually work? I can't say? Were they ever on a factory car=No, Although they were selected for both the 48 Davis Motor Co. 3 wheeled car and made it on the single prototype, The Tucker Motor Car Co. also ordered many sets too only never get a chance to take delivery due to their collapse. That's probably how they made their way into the Hot Rod circles. Many parts ordered only to never been picked up by their original customers so hence this being L.A. and several speed shops available to hauk their wares. Great chance to make sales to the awaiting Hot Rod public.
those things are sweet! not meaning to open a can of worms here but i wonder how hard it would be to cast a cover that looks close to them and have them house a set of more modern gm disks??
Thanks for the post, and thanks Kiwi for the article scan, I was curious about them also, but not enough to do a seach. Think i'll be better off with lincolns. like I could afford kinmonts anyway
Impossible. or close to it. GM calipers are about 5.5" thick. Kinmont pressure plates (the covers on the front of the brakes) are less than 3" deep.
Well, I should thank you for bringing about their current popularity- you must have had something to do with the story on Kinmonts in The Rodders Journal? Without you I'm sure they never would have heard of them. I was like you in 1982 when I was the ONLY one interested in them, but strangely they were still $2500 a set, more than a 16-year old could afford for his $800 Model A.
A little (sort of related) disc brake history... Experimenting with disc-style brakes began in England in the 1890s; the first ever automobile disc brakes were patented by Frederick William Lanchester in his Birmingham factory in 1902, though it took another half century for his innovation to be widely adopted. Modern-style disc brakes first appeared on the low-volume Crosley Hotshot in 1949, although they had to be discontinued in 1950 due to design problems. Chrysler's Imperial division also offered a type of disc brake from 1949 through 1953, though in this instance they were enclosed with dual internal-expanding, full-circle pressure plates. Reliable modern disc brakes were developed in the UK by Dunlop and first appeared in 1953 on the Jaguar C-Type racing car. The Citroën DS of 1955, with powered inboard front disc brakes, and the 1956 Triumph TR3 were the first European production cars to feature modern disc brakes. The next American production cars to be fitted with disc brakes were the 1963 Studebaker Avanti, the 1965 Rambler Marlin and the 1966 Chevrolet Corvette. These brakes offered greater stopping performance than comparable drum brakes, including resistance to "brake fade" caused by the overheating of brake components, and recovered quickly from immersion (wet brakes are less effective). Unlike a drum brake, the disc brake has no self-servo effect and the braking force is always proportional to the pressure placed on the braking pedal or lever. Many early implementations for automobiles located the brakes on the inboard side of the driveshaft, near the differential, but most brakes today are located inside the wheels.(An inboard location reduces the unsprung weight and eliminates a source of heat transfer to the tires, important in Formula One racing.) Disc brakes were most popular on sports cars when they were first introduced, since these vehicles are more demanding about brake performance. Discs have now become the more common form in most p***enger vehicles, although many (particularly light weight vehicles) use drum brakes on the rear wheels to keep costs and weight down as well as to simplify the provisions for a parking brake. As the front brakes perform most of the braking effort, this can be a reasonable compromise.
You know, all the talk about thee things lately, and I can't recall seeing a single pic from "back in the day" of a car sporting these things (beside's kev's article from '73). Any "known" cars have them? pre-60's pics?
There were quite a few- notably Chili Catallo's "Beach Boys" '32 Coupe. But like Arduns they only stayed on a short while as trends changed- and it was found the Ford parts were WAYYYY easier to get than the rare disc stuff.
The Hot Rod Exhibition in Los Angeles in 1948 (1949, 1950?) did a watch-them-build-it demonstration of a '32 roadster during the show. This car had Kinmonts on it. I believe the car was given away like a raffle.
Good to see you accept my expertise!! although I never claimed to have anything to do with any of this just giving the guy a suggestion to look at all the info someone had given me, No you weren't like me in '82 I was too busy learning from the older hot rodders instead of being a smart***, hope your new business goes well with an at***ude like that!! Thats all from me, sorry john56, just trying to help you out like others did for me, I myself really like them but like most here could not afford them and was told didn't perform well for thier COST...Ken
Kinmont brakes work like a pressure plate on an engine. The brake disk material revolves with the wheel, interlocked by the gear edges of the "drum". The brake material revolves between the backing plate, and a compression plate that gets levered to squeeze the disk and bring the wheel to a stop. It is sorta like a clutch, but in reverse. Step on the pedal and it engages, instead of with a clutch, it disengages. Take a look at The Rodder's Journal #7. Jay Fitzhugh hotrodjay
High bid was about $4500.00, but below the reserve price. Somebody wanted them "pretty" bad, but the current owner evidently wants them more.
When I started work at Specialized in 1973 the upstairs storage was filled with speed and hotrod goodies, ARDUNS, yes ,"S" plural, heads and engines,even a V8-60 setup, the C-T Automotive (Moller-Adams)engine from the "City of Burbank" streamliner recording Bonnie car and the casting moulds and jigs to make a new set or 6, the casting moulds for the Tornado quickie third member, the complete inventory and casting moulds and jigs for Eddie Meyers line of flattie stuff, Kinmonts, SOHC and DOHC banger head setups, Cragar, Roof, Riley, Winfield carbs, Buffalo wires, Chrysler Imperial wires and caps, Potvin front mounted blower, and so many intake manifolds of the rearest order, boxes and boxes of rare aluminum and even a set of those copper flathead heads, magnetoes, cams, Mercury cranks, and on and on. I got handle and admire and advertise for sale the entire lot piece by piece. What a great trip that was!
The Jalopy Journal
