Hi, I'm trying to get the valves out of a 1941 Merc motor. I'm not having much success, but i only have the valve pry bars, and not "c" impact tool. My first question is, I got one complete valve assembly out by only removing the horseshoe clip...I thought this was not supposed to be able to happed. the horseshoe clip came out and the valve pulled thru the top. Is this a problem? I'm not keeping the cam or valves. I was thinking about taping the cam out, prying the valves as far up as i can, and grinding the tops off, hopefully then i would be able to push the rest into the galley? Any problems with this method? Any other suggestions? It seams as if the biggest problem is that the horseshoe clips are stuck and buggered up, and i dont have that tool. Thanks for all help, Chris
The valve assemblies should come out the top with the removal of the horseshoe clips. Yeah, they can be a bastard to remove without removing much skin from the knuckles Vise Grips and a prybar... Flatman
Do you have solid or two piece guides? I still think the whole assembly is supposed to come out the top. The bar tool is just to pull the guides down enough to remove the clips. Flatman
The way you got that first one out is the textbook way of doing it. There is a tool for tapping the guides down far enough to get the clip out, but they are not being made any more, to the best of my knowledge. There is also a tool for just ripping the horseshoe clip out regardless of whether or not the guide is tapped down. Since the early two part guides and mushroomed valve stems are a royal pain, there is no need to save those components. Tear them up as needed. Late model replacements are available and a much better option.
The valve assemblies come out as a unit. They are removed by compressing (prying down) the valve spring and pulling the c clip out. The c clip holds the valve retainer in position and once removed will allow the entire unit to be pushed upward and removed. They cannot be removed by pushing them towards the camshaft. If your engine has been setting for a period of time or has had water around the valves this can be a problem. It is suggested that you spray penetrating oil around all open valves to help soak the guides loose. Rotate the engine and spray valves that were closed. If the valve assembly is stuck be careful prying directly on the lifters as they are cast and will crack easily. If you intend to use the valves over do not pry on the valve head as this will potentially bend the valve stem. If you are throwing them away, you can. If you have a guide that is stuck rotate the engine so that the valve is fully open and apply heat from a propane torch to the valve guide . Let cool. This expansion and contraction helps break the oxidation bond between the block material and the guide material. When reinstalling guides coat with a thin film of Neversieze.
Why are the instructions in this link provided if they simply pull up thru the top? would seem like a bunch of unessasary steps. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_valveremoval_tools-1.htm
Because if you think they will come out easily, you have another think coming. Even back in the day, the guides were nearly always seized to the block.
There are lots of problems, lots of ways...blasted guides have to come down a fraction to release horseshoes by the book...but there are other ways and other tools. First, does engine turn?? Do valves move?? If possible, open valves and wege UP, remove cam (engine upside down to keep lifters up)...now you have extra ways. Or...cut heads offa open valves (torch, sawzall, remember not to hammer the seats, which are probably reuseable), hammer guides down a bit with big socket... Or...I have 3 different flavors of tools to remove horseshoes improperly, through creative violence... I've got the big C clamp to then jack out the guides regardless... I've got valve ripperopeners... I have the good forged offset punches to hammer guides... Spend some time getting lower end apart, throw the block into your trunk, and come up here (not much more than an hour from Phila), and visit the internationally famous museum of old Ford valve tools. Whatever you do, remember the '39-42 Merc blocks are real goodies, and don't do anything too violent--it is possible to do very bad things in this process if you get carried away.
Bruce thanks for the offer. the motor does turn, and i got a few of the valves out, and have a good idea of the process of doing so. It looks like im going to go with the good old fashion cursing and busted knuckles method. After pulling a few valves out I feel that pulling valves out of a flathead is like reaching a hotrod milestone. Theres nothing like geting covered in 70 year old grease that stays under your nails for even longer, having a leverage bar under your armpit, all while trying to get those spring retainers out. What makes this even beter is that i ran out of workbench space so im working on my garage floor and made a stool out of a old model A rear end, which is not as comfortable as one might think.
Always remember safety when doing flathead valves: If the pan underneath shows over a quart of blood, OR if you start to grey out, visit the emergency room for a refill transfusion before doing the rest of the valves.
Recycler loaned me a special tool. It's a bar with a slot in the end. I haven't used it yet. When I get around to it, I'll want to refer to this thread. It doesn't look too easy.
Just a few weeks ago I removed for the first time all of the vlaves from my '41 Flathead. Yes, the design is such that the removal of the horseshoe clip allows the entire assembly (valve, split guide, spring and keeper) to be removed as one unit through the top face of the block. Only after the job was complete did I discover that there are special tools for this, but I was able to accomplish it by using a long prybar with the end ground to fit around the guide so as to push the spring down and Vice Grips to grab the horseshoe clip and work it free. Often even after the clips were removed the module was still stuck in place due to carbon buildup, requiring pressure to the valve stem end to help things pop out. No doubt about it, though, it is a pain. Incidentally, after two evenings' work all 16 were out without damage to anything except the horseshoe clips which after the tugging and prying didn't look too horseshoey any more. New ones, though, through JobLot are cheap. Incidentally, I used a bungee cord to hold the pry bar in place, compressing the spring since I needed both hands to maneuver the Vice Grip. Kind of a Rube Goldberg arrangement and not pretty, but it worked. Have fun.
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