hi guys... I guess I'm gonna show my ignorance here... but if you can't come to a forum where you guys all know, and get some knowledge,.. ?? Anyway,,.. I bought me a 350 Chevy motor to go in my 46 Studebaker pickup. I am now getting around to cutting the firewall a little to get the motor to fit. I figured I'd have to cut it a little,.. but it's looking like I'm gonna have to cut it back 7 or 8 inches. Someone told me I had a "long" water pump on my motor. I never knew (showing my ignorance) there was a difference between short and long. If so,.. how much distance can I hope to gain if I swap out from my long one to a short one. Someone said 6 or 7 inches,... you all know anyting about this... Could it be correct?? Another factor I got to thinking about was this,... I live near Atlanta... lots of HOT summer days. I plan on this being pretty much an every day driver. Will a "short" water pump keep everything 'cool' I am going to have A/C, an automatic transmission, and power steering. My radiator will be a 3-core about 18" wide by about 22" tall. Thats the biggest that will fit. SO... What can all you guys that have any expertise in this field tell me about this. I'm looking for what all INFO I can find. Better to have all I can get NOW<.. rather then get it all set up,.. and then find it all 'after the fact" when it's too late. It'll be much easier to move my motor mounts (and look better) than to chop a whole hunk out of my firewall to make room for the back of the motor (and distributor)
The "short" water pumps are basically the same as the "long" as far as cooling efficiency. The only real difference is the housing itself. The "short" pump sits closer to the timing chain cover than the "long" does. Sorry, I don't remember the exact measurement off hand.
The short pump is only about 1-1/4" less than the long pump. If the engine were in the same location, the fan hub would end up 1-1/4" closer to the radiator with the long pump.
cooling capacity is the same. I recommend adding a Flowkooler impeller plate to the pump you choose. It basically makes your standard pump into a high flow pump. Summit sells them for like $6. visually, the quickest way to tell which pump you have is to look down from the top, at the space between the timing cover and the back of the water pump. If there's pretty much no space, it's a short pump. If you could stick your finger between, it's long. be aware that if you change the pump, you will have to change your pulleys and brackets too. You can't mix and match, the belts won't run true. As far as putting a SBC in a Stude pickup... I've never done it personally, but I have seen a couple, and I don't remember them having chopped up firewalls. Keep in mind that you only need a half inch of space between your fan blade or water pump snout and the radiator (less is ok, but I like "breathing room") and about the same from the firewall to the distributor cap. If the right side head is the only thing hitting the firewall, you can usually just "massage" that small area, rather than setting back the whole firewall.
Thanks for the posts so far guys... Like I said someone said I'd gain like 6+ inches... but for 1-1/2 I'll have to think about that. As far as the fan, .. I plan on taking off the mechanical fan and using a electric 'pull' type fan. The cab of the truck I got had part of the firewall cut out of it when I got it. I'd say probably about 1/2 way up. We set the motor in, just to get an idea how it would set, and line up, SO I got both the motor , and cab actually "sitting" on the frame. Right now the distributor is inside the firewall about 7 inches. (about the whole thing). And, thinking ahead, if I have to make room in the firewall for the distributor,.. I was thinking I just probably wouldn't want to barely cut enough out of the firewall so I could tuck it back in there. As all of you know I am sure,.. If you must remove the distributor it is about 16" long, and must come straight up until it comes out of the hole it goes in into the motor. SO unless I'm wrong,.. if the fiewall don't have provisions so the distributor to come out,.. then I could get to where I have to take out the entire motor just to take out the distributor. What's you all's take on this. I'll see if I can't post a couple pics on my web site where you can see what is going on. http://www.peachstspeedway.com/pickupguy.htm Pics will be on page #2
SBC's seem to have a zillion different pulley and bracket combo's. If I were you, I'd get all of my pulleys and brackets off the same engine, either from buddy or the junkyard. It will save you a tremedous amount of time later on.
You can see from pro enfo's pic what the space gain is but I can't imagine an SBC having to be stuffed into the firewall that far on a Stude that had an inline 6 in it to begin with.That just seems wrong. Pics of your conundrum?
Yeah.. that was my thought... Radiator "has" to be placed in a certain spot,.. mainly because the support that holds the radiator ALSO holds all the front end assembly together... (fenders on, inner fenders, hood only reaches out to X point.) I'm gonna go and add 3 more pictures to the web site... we started hanging the fenders on it,.. just to use as a gauge to make use everything teid in together,.. and get all out "points" right. As you can see from the pics. Certain things have to be where they are. The radiator has to mount where it is,.. which limits me to 'how far" I can move the "current" configuration of the motor forward. I think I stated up above,.. i DO NOT plan on using the mechanical fan,.. but instead use a electric 'pull' fan So what distance I save by removing the fan blade would be taken up by the electric fan. Pics on the site (page 2)... thanks for the help http://www.peachstspeedway.com/pickupguy.htm
The short pump offers a little more room, and is the best way to go in my opinion. No big padilla really. No. you can't louver a fiberglass hood!
I looked at your pictures. Overall, a very impressive project. I looks to me like you have some room to bring the motor forward. Short pump for sure. Can you mount the radiator in front of the core support?
Looking at your pictures, i would go w/ the short pump & pulley set and run the motor up to about 1/4" from the radiator. I would then mount a pusher fan on the front of the radiator. Are you sure you cant ease the rad like 1" forward? You should be able to do that without changing the rest of the truck by modifying its mounts. I think a combination of those things would get you to the point where the majority of your engine was actually in the bay - right now it looks like a van.
I looked thru your pictures and have a few thoughts. You are going to gain the inches from the fan clutch entension and the short water pump. I'm pretty sure you can mount the radiator on the front of the support like they did for 6 cyl tri-five chevies. If you are still in the planning stages for motor mounts I would look into a tubing crossmember mount that picks up the side mounts rather than the Hurst style mount you show in the pictures. Make the crossmember removable to allow oil pan removal. If you use the side mounts and a rear trans mount there will be less strain on the bellhousing than with the Hurst mount. Nice work on fixing/extending the cab! I would never have thought of using the S10 windows.
Another suggestion, as if you don't have enough. Run a '70's Corvette bracket setup for a left side high alternator position. Also Corvette water pumps are short series with a heavy duty 3/4" shaft. And, get a BIG radiator. Check out products from Stewart Water Pumps - the pumps and thermostats really work well.
good looking project, it 'l be alooker when it's done. I had the same problem when I put a pontiac OHC 6 in a 37 chev cp. my soultion was to swap the radiator mounts on the radiator it's self from side to side ,gained about 2.5 ". I also shortened the water pump shaft about 2"then used a pully off a 264 buick on the water pump,which lined up with the crank pully. I hope this helps. Jack
thanks for all the suggestion (Keep them coming)... I'm pretty busy this week and looks like I may not get to work on the ol gal for a few days.. I found a radiator that It looks like I'm gonna mount INSIDE the support. It will fit perfect, and pretty much fill the entire space. Then I can put the A/C Condensor outside that... Then put a 'pull' fan inside. Once the nose starts to angle in (or make a pointy round nose under the hood) I comes in kinda quick. I checked about the electric fan.. and one won't fit outside. Just not that much room.... so I'll have to leave the fan inside. I can mount the condensor outside and it is very thin, and will fit. As far as moving the radiator forward... I'm not so sure thats a possibility...?? First it mounts threw a crossmember that is there,.. (So I could add another one)... Big problems I run into is that the fenders have to mount on the cab (and also the inner fenders) and when you bolt them on the side of the cab,.. they just reach out to the nose 'so' far. Where the two sides meet is just where the bracket that holds the radiator has to go. I didn't take pics of it,.. but maybe you can make out on the edges of some of them.. we put on the upper fenders, side supports, inner fenders, etc... all trying to see if we could 'squeeze' a little extra room out. Looks like I'm just kinda stuck where it is. ??
From a "parts guy" view...... and I tend to drive my crap. The long pump would be way easier to find in a parts store if needed. The shorties are getting tougher to find. But they both work the same. The long pump says nothing about being traditional though.
I'm running a SBC in my 46 Stude. Short pump, 66 mustang(w/ac)rad , mech fan. I tried two different electric fans, pushing and niether were enough. I still need to build a shroud, but even without one it works well unless I idle for a long time. I ended up replacing the firewall with a wheel barrow. It's still tight but I can pull the dist. In the long run, the firewall replacement was worth the trouble to replace. My truck is channeled, which made things even tighter. I'll see If I can find some pictures.
I never knew (showing my ignorance) there was a difference between short and long. If so,.. how much distance can I hope to gain if I swap out from my long one to a short one. Great work so far, but how come Dad is doing everything except taking the pics? As far as your comment above, ask the wife or girlfriend. She should be able to explain it.
after looking at your pictures-- It appears that you are running the long water pump, the stock clutch fan, and that you have at least 2" between the fan and the radiator. the engine is set WAY farther back than a usual "street rod" type application. Ditch the stock clutch fan. Short or long pump, either way, I recommend a six blade steel fan (no clutch) from Flexalite, I think the 17" fan is part # 1517. It pitches forward some, but still much less than the clutch fan. Bolt that sucker up to whichever water pump you choose (I'd go short pump) and then slide the engine and trans forward until you have NO MORE than 1/2" clearance between the fan and radiator.
Cool project Pickupguy! With the added room you've made, I'd fab up a new firewall. I found a few crappy pics. These were taken during the chop (1&1/2" front and back) The seam between the new firewall and the orig.has ben cut off but not finished yet, or I may just build another, as more changes are in the works( finishing up a new chassis, and getting rid of the firewall mounted master)
folks.. thanks for the suggestions... and all the kinda words. Me and Dad are staying busy on this little project. Neither of us NEVER having done anything like this,... well it's been fun and challenging. Neither of us ever worked with metal or steel before, did any type of welding, etc etc... so needless to say It's been a learning experience. Dad's always been a home builder so I got all the experience of 'keeping things square", etc etc... so it should turn out fine in that respect. I'm telling ya. NOTHING on these old Studebakers are straight... rounded curves everywhere you look. Very challenging when you go to cutting, chopping, and adding on... HAHAHAH Thanks again for the ideas, suggestions, and help. Anyone feel free to throw in some more. As I said,.. this week probably won't do much on the ol' gal... so feel free.
OK Got me a new radiator... got it all set to go INSIDE the support. Ordered a 'pull' type fan. It's about 3-1/2" thick. Looks like I'll be able to move the motor up about 3-1/2" MAX when it is all said and done. Thats about 1/2 of what I need. But better than nothing. Can't come up with any way to get it up any further..??
Hi guys, I'm new to HAMB, buit not new to SBC in the Studebaker. The engine fits fine, WITHOUT cutting anything. Use the short pump, set the engine about 1 1/8" from the fire wall on the left bank, remove the radiator side brackets from the core and reverse them side to side and install the radiator INSIDE the support. This will require notching the radiator support to get to the cap, but that is WAY less work than cutting the fire wall. The way I did my engine mounts was to cut the original engine crossmember loose, move it back to sit under the Chevy mounts and fabricate stands off of the original mounts. It is neede that you set up some of the sheet metal to locate the radiator, but when all is done, the fan will be about 5/8" from the core. I set my engine about 1" to the right to clear the Total Cost pedal assembly and the four speed linkage. Where I ran into interferance is at the driveline/fuel tank. I set the engine to have the transmission as close to the floor as possible for the shifter. Last time I set the whole thing lower, but was runing a Power Glide and there was no issue. Oh, by the way, the original radiator has cooled this thing since the mid '80's.
hijack Funny to see threads brought up from the dead, and usually by well meaning individuals. I got an email regarding a post I made two or three years ago regarding a disc brake swap woes on my Dad's '57 Chevy. The guy replied to the post, and even emailed pictures!! God bless 'em, but dang, it was a wee bit late. My Dad's been driving the car for a year at least now! /hijack
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