If you dig altereds and gassers, I need your opinions. 38 fiat topolino

I picked up a 1938 Fiat Topolino body, T bucket chassis some wheels and tires. Put that together with some stuff I had laying around and I have most of the making of a nice little street rod.

I want the look to be that of the 60's altered drag car but still drivable. No blower, baffled zoomies, skinny fronts and fatties in the rear.

Not having a lot of room in this tiny body, I have decided to model it in 3D to get things organized prior to taking up the floor space to build it.

The jpgs below are from the model and are dimensionally acurate to .ooo1. I can change any location of anything and have been doing that for days. Just cant settle on the wheelbase and location of the motor.

I would like to hear you opinions as to how to organize things such as:
Location of motor - how far back?
How far out to push the front end?
how low to the ground ? up in back? up in front?
Radiator in the front or back?
Narrow the ford 9" rearend? stock width shown

Look at the pics and tell me what you like and dont like, what you would do and why. Many of you have seem many more of these than I have.

Thanks for the help.

 

you probably need to readjust the bracket on the pass. side front axle. A little bigger tire in the back, and bring the front end back in just a bit. Just my worthless opinion.

 

Your drawing is accurate to a ten-thousanth? Damn did you put the whole car in a DMM or what?

....

 

That bracket has been fixed. didnt even need a torch. That was an early picture.

Front axle about at the bottom point of the grill? or just in front of the grill?

 

If you want a '60 altered look get the nose of the body up higher and narrow the rear to bring the wheels partly under the quarters. The front axle needs to be just behind the bottom of the grill.

 

using Mondellos fiat for reference:

Location of motor - how far back?
traditionally, the valve covers would be nearly against the firewall, just ahead of the windshield. (assuming a big block)

How far out to push the front end?
centerline of front axle located aprox. 4" behind front grille

how low to the ground ? up in back? up in front?
bottom of rocker panels level with centerline of front wheel

Radiator in the front or back?
front would be more practical, but it would be cool if you could hide it elsewhere.
Narrow the ford 9" rearend? stock width shown
Yes, narrowed. Guessing with a 12.5 wide tire, half of the tire tucked under the body as measured at the rocker panel. Probably a ten inch rim with 4" of back spacing.

 

No. I faked the body. Many people look at those pictures like they are cartoons not realizing that they are extremly acurate and can be used by cnc machines for making parts. Just trying to communicate that.

I am trying to get a model of the topolino body drawn by an italian car designer but havnt been able to reach him yet. I wont take the time to do that, my fake is good enough to get the idea.

 

like 2manybillz says, just behind the bottom of the grill. Awesome start...

 

Get a NHRA rule book, circa 1963. If I remember rite? Engine location was: Farthest front spark plug could not be set back further than 25% of wheelbase. Or somthin like that. They all had the same look cause of the rulebook....OLDBEET

 

have to echo the 'just behind the grill' idea. In my opinion (Not that its all that useful) it gives the car a better look. But hey, your car do what you like man!

 

I like the modeling. What software did you use?

Don't those bodies have a spare tire well in back? Maybe you could put the radiator in back and use the well for the fan and/or as an exit for the air.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

Maybe these images can help you.

 

I am using solid edge.

Thats a great idea about using the spair tire well as an exit for the air from the radiator.

Thanks

 

Yes they will. I have not picked up the body yet. Took some mesurments and faked the rest. These will help me tighten up the body dimensions.

Thanks

 

I made some changes

106"wheel base
front axle just behind grill
front spring over axle
narrowed rear end
took z out of frame

The advice you guys have is very usefull, keep it coming.

BTW the changes (I just started over with a few part modifications) took about 45 min. I use to do it with a cutting torch and a mig welder.

 

You got it now - start building. One thing on your drawings, the rear wheels are a little far forward and the tail is a bit tucked in compared to the actual car. Won't matter if you mock up the real stuff.

The front end attitude looks perfect to me.

 

Looks Great, you gonna weld up the front grill and cut back the hood? working on anything but a nailhead will be a bitch! Think Anglia style tilt nose.

 

Thanks.

Your right about the rear end being not quite right. The dimensional drawings I got in this thread and another day at the body with a tape measure will fix that.

 

I'm thinking I will leave the grill and try to stuff a narrow radiator behind it. Dont know if thats possible, but would be much simpler than putting it in the back. Considering both options. Any opinions?

Your right it will be hard to work on as it is. Thinking I will cut it just forward of the windshield and weld that part to the front opening part with the grill in it and hinge it all from the front.

 

the mondello fiat is a good one....mike sullivans early fiats are another favorite...nothing too stretched out....maybe 100" wheelbase or so....i have a 118" chassis for my fiat body....but would love to take about 15" out of the front......but it would be easier to just build another chassis.... heres a couple shots i have.....that are some of my favorites....i think the geuniune suspension car is a old mondello car...neat car just the same...lol ..brandon

 

Maddog
I like the look of the axle just below the grill shell if looks is what your after. I really like 'em with a straight axle instead of a dropped axle, but they also look good with a '40 axle lightened to the max.

Anyway if you want to drive it and keep it managable you want to make your wheelbase in the 110-112 range. Move your mill back close to the firewall and shoot for a 50:50 or a 45:55 ratio. Front to back. Keep your rear tires as close to the body as possibel without digging in and watch your track width front to back. You really want your front track width to be no narrower than your rear and mayhaps a bit wider.

 

Yeah, I would try the radiator in front first, and the grill looks good (Omega's example).

Thanks,
Kurt

 

Click on this an scroll down, the black and orange example is awesome. Sadly I watched the demise of this car one night at the drags.
http://parsonsandsons.com/mgeorgettepics1.htm

 

If I remember correctly, a lot of the old Fiats at the strip had a solid mounted rear end. If you are planning on running it on the street you might want to use some type of coil-over on the rear, in which case you might want to z the frame in the rear, to give you some suspension travel. I like the front axle just behind the grille idea too, but would use a tube axle with a small drop in it, just to lower the front a bit. Just my $.02.
Red

 

from bowling green 04 i think.....this guy had a cool street version....with nice proportions.....the salmon orange colored one that was floating around back in the late 90's had good lines too.......brandon

 

Just F.Y.I.

Topolino translated to english means "little mouse".

 

A ton of good information here. Thanks all.

Yes I will be z'ing the frame for rear suspension.

When you talk about the track, the front being slightly wider, how many inches per side? Is this measured from the outer edge of the tires or the center line?

How much lower is the back of the motor than the front? I know it needs to be 3 degrees off of a direct line to the yoke on the rearend but is this a matter of personal choice or is there some reason for this. It does look cool.

Glad to read the guy walked away from that crash. Docwatson, you were there and saw that?

Brandon, you got any pictures?

I have the 2 front axles pictured below. I was thinking the chrome one with the drop. I dont know what the other one is.

What is a '40 axle? I can get an axle from a friends 40 ford truck. How would this look (I havnt seen it but it has been offered to me)

Thanks again for the education.

 

Maddog,
actually the crankshaft should be parallel with the pinion shaft in the rear end even if it is higher or lower. Depending on the style of rear suspension that you choose a little bit of nose down or up angle on the pinion may be necessary to get everything in line when the car is in motion. Basically, leaf spring rears need more static down angle to compensate for the springs winding up under load, ladder bars need to have the pinion at the same angle as the crank or up a little as they will tilt it down as they swing in their natural arc and parallel four bars will maintain the same angle through their travel if the upper and lower bar lengths are equal.

Doc, I am old enough to remember the Georgette Fiat the first time around. In fact I can remember buying the first issue of Australian Rodding Review with Mark's multi carb Model A on the cover.

Roo

 

We use the stock bodied rod to tow the race car


http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m291/dclothier/Nostalgia%20Drags 07/DSC03378.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m291/dclothier/Nostalgia Drags 07/DSC03377.jpg

 

Amazing images