Anyone running a SBF in their Model A?

Anyone running a small block Ford in their Model A? I'm going to run a 302 in my coupe. My question is regarding the steering box. I would like to run a Vega box, but it looks like the box location would get in the way of the oil filter.

Pictures would be great!

Thanks

 

I helped a friend of mine put a 302 in a 29 sedan. What a Pain!! never again. This was a fenderless car. Couldn't find any headers that would fit inside the frame. Had to widen the frame three inches. Steering had to have 4 u-joints in it and a remote engine oil filter setup to work. NO room alongside the engine because of the exhaust. Used the shortest water pump available and the engine still intrudes into the forward footboard area of the car.. Never again.

 

Its damn close and depends on the brand of filter ya use. I had to grind a corner of a bolt to get a motorcraft brand to clear. Fits good after it turns the corner

 

Thanks Hiboy, I was getting a little worried there for a minute. I went to the GoodGuys show out here a few weeks ago and saw one car like mine with the vega set-up, but I forgot my camera.

I was going to go with a SBC, but I got a great deal on a 5.0 motor and T5 ******. I've already stripped down the motor and bought a carb, manifold and cam. They should be in tomorrow.

What year motor is that Hiboy?

Thanks!

 

Its a 29 on an original modified frame. I've always been a sbc guy but I have to admit this set-up really fits good. No way to get at a dissy if it was a sbc.

 

Thats good to hear. There are just so many SBC out there. I think the Ford motor will be a nice change. I just hope it goes in there pretty easy. I've never built a car like this before. I've got a good freind helping me, but he built hot rods back in the 70's and never a Model A with a SBF.

Oh, what year motor is your's. I might have some motor questions too.

Thanks

 

Don't really know for sure. I thing it is from the late 70's but not sure. Just a stock 302 with edelbrock intake and 500 carb. Don't have the punch my old hopped up 350's had. But this is geared with a 3.00 rear gear and some huge tires on the back.

 

Ford Racing sells a 90* oil filter adapter - use that & solve your clearance issues. Otherwise, there are shorter filters you can use. You could also use a remote filter.

Bottom line - don't let the filter keep you from doing what you need to do!

The SBF is a bit longer than the SBC, but they're narrower & slightly lighter - good swap material in most cars...you'll probably need a rear sump pan - readily available in junkyard or eBay.

 

I have a 302 in my '29 Coupe with a Vega box. I used a remote adapter to move the filter. It's tight, but doable. My only complaint about the SBC is that it is longer so I had to recess my firewall a little more than if it was a SBC. But the being different factor makes it worth while.

 

The oil filter adapter should be an easy fix, one plus for using a sbf is you may be able to adapt a cheap early mustang radiator.

 

I was trying to find info on the radiators. I just got a Mustangs Plus catalog and it looks like their radiators will fit. I'm concerned about the water pump length too.

I sure would like to see more pictures of how you guys set up your SBF motors.

Thanks!!!

 

Use a short oil filter and mount the engine high. as for the fan, the stock 69 Torino fan isn't going to fit. I'll have to come up with something a bit shorter blade length or use an electric on the radiator. Soon as I figure how to get headers and steering column to occupy the same spot I'm golden. It's much easier to put a Chevy in a Ford than a Ford in a Ford.

Pics of the engine mounting here.
http://public.fotki.com/SmokinJoe/the_model_a_coupe/

 

FRPP 90 degree adapter MSRP $75 pn: M-6880-A50

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=1829

Now It's been a few years, but I seem to recall my 1995 Mercury Cougar 3.8 having a 90 degree adapter on it from the factory. Same thread pattern and a posible cheap junk yard solution.

I'm pretty sure it had one because I used to ***** about it everytime I changed my oil. It always leaked a little on me due to it's design and the tight confines of the engine compartment I was working in.

 

You guys rock! This is a great website!

 

You have to bury the dizzy in the firewall with an sbc. Ford claims that with the "short pump" the sbf is 1/2" shorter that the sbc. If you really want to get the shortest posible setup and don't mind a serpantine belt take a look at the "Explorer" 5.0 front dress. With that system you gain close to another incn. The gain is the result of Ford moving the pump back farther where the fuel pump drive used to be. You'll have to run an electric pump but the engine will not have to go very far back.

 

While you're grabbing that, grab the heads, too. It will have the GT40P heads. Those are a**** the best RPO non-canted valve heads Ford ever made for the SBF.

 

I don't have a real good pic of mine, but my filter clears the Vega box fine, just awful close to the frame, a 90 degree adaptor, or a remote filter is what I will run, as for header clearence, no prblem either, there are so many factory and after market SBF headers it can work, we just put one in my dad's 32 pick-up, and my sedan. No need for rear sump pan either, I have a deep sump front sump pan on mine and have loads of clearance. Also easy to swap radiator hose locations, mine are the same as a SBC now, I have the reversed water pump, readily available and a swivel 360 degree stat housing.

 

There is a Volvo oil filter that fits perfectly and is very short. Don't remember the part number, but it is used on just about every Volvo made from the '60's on up. Running one on my 302 in an A frame. It saves you a ton of room in that area.

When I need one I just go to the parts store and get in the Volvo section of the oil filter book and it is the most common one shown. It's like 2-3 inches long.

RR

 

Mine is on Deuce rails, with a Vega box. It has the short (previously mentioned Volvo) filter and Sanderson shorties. Not a lot of extra room, but it all fits.

 

we have an adapter and lower pulley kit cast locally in oz that uses a holden(GM) 6 cyl water pump, this gives you something close to 2 inches shorter on the front...really helps fit an sbf in an A .

 

I put a 302 in my 35 PU. I also used a MII front suspension.

I know it not a 31 with solid axle, but the demensions are close to the same, and youll probably experience some of the same issues I did. I put it pretty low, but after all came out in the wash, I could have put it a good 5 inches higher, and still cleared the hood with the tunnel ram!

I had issues with the oil filter and steering and exhaust also. Obivisouly, I took the easy way out on the exhaust with the Block huggers. They helped me a lot.

For the oil filter, I used a Summit remote mount kit. However, If I had set the engine higher, I couldve used the short filter and would have been able to get it off. As it sits, I actually built the motor mounts with a filter on it. i had a good 1/2 inch of clearance. But I didnt take into consideration that I would need a good inch of clearance to unscrew it, hence the remote filter I had to use. I couldnt take the filter on or off w/o lifting the engine!

For the water pump, make sure that you have ALL of the accessories you plan to run on the engine when placing it. I did this and have pleanty of room to even add power steering and A/C if I ever got the desire to do so.

I used a rear Sump oil pan. I think it came from a 1980s Bronco. Cleared the MII cross member easily. The MII member is about an inch forward of the original crossmember if I remember correctly. If you set the engine up higher, its be a moot point and you could even use a dual sump Mustang pan if that is what you so desiered or just happened to have laying around.

For the steering, if I remmber correctly, you are not supposed to angle more than 37 degrees ofr a typical u/joint. Someone, please correct me if Im off on this. Anyway, I ended using a u-joint out of the column, a double u-joint to get around the header, and aonther u-joint at the Rack. I thin you could use similar method to get to the Steering box you planned to use. Just make sure you use the proper support bearings. Mine is solid with both of those and feels just like a normal car. It even steers better than my 34 Sedan.

Anyway, the picts are attached, I hope it helps.

 

Oh yeah, cause I set the engine down so low, I had to use a electric fan. However, the bottom of the oil pan is still higher than the bottom of the front crossmember and I have no scrub line violations.

 

The standard Ford filter is Motorcraft FL-1A, The short filter is FL-300.If anyone wants a filter about twice the size of a FL-1a ,use the truck filter FL-299 .

 

Had a coupe and a roadster with the vega box and a 5.0 Ford. The trick is to get the motor short with a early timing cover and SVO water pump. This will shorten the motor 3 or 4 inches and the same as a SBC. Then use the 90 degree oil filter with a F-1 filter and it clears the vega box fine.. The headers we ended up using were also Ford Motor Sport. This was a nice tight fit but looked well thought out when finished.. The problem we have had is mounting something first and working around the one item. Tack the motor mounts in then mount the headers, then the steering box (vega) then the column and we always used only one U-joint on the box and column.
Also the motor mounts were just 3/8 plates that used the donuts...

 

Hey this is some great info, I'm putting a 302 into my '27 ford truck...Thanx for the Info!

 

I was going to put a 289 in a '28 model a but was talked into a sbc, now I think I'll go back to the drawing board and refigure my calculations. I really wanted to keep this one all ford. Thanks for the good info. Steve

 

Hey, thanks again for all the great info! It's looking a bit more promising using this 5.0 motor after all. Earlier today I was ready to junk the whole Ford in a Ford thing and go with a SBC. I really dig the way the blackbomber's coupe looks on here. I was going to try and get close to his car, but with this 5.0 motor.

I can still get my hands on a free 283, but it needs to be rebuilt. The 5.0 motor I found has 65,000 miles on it, plus it came with a T5 ******.My buddy that's helping me with this project is a big Chevy guy and he's trying to talk me out of the Ford motor.

What would you guys do, go with the 5.0 motor or the old tried and true small block Chevy?

Thanks agian for all your help

Scott

Anybody out there in the Santa Cruz area that whats to give me a hand?

 

For what it' worth... Car Craft took a high mileage 302 HO out of a '91 5.0 Mustang (85-92 5.0 HO's had factory forged pistons) and did a driveway rebuild. Rings, bearings, reused the stock pistons, etc...

Then they added AFR165 heads, Comp Cams 1.7 roller rockers, a Weiand Stealth intake, and a Road Demon Jr. 625cfm carb. Then dyno'd it to the tune of 405 crank hp @ 6200 and 380 ft/lbs at 4300 on the OEM factory roller camshaft. Pretty impressive for a simple rebuild.

You can read the shortblock rebuild article at http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0111_build_your_engine/

And the second 405hp part at http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford_302_v8_engine_buildup/

 

I am running a 302 in both my 28 model A and my 32 roadster-use the short oil filter and it will barely miss the vega box-i am running patriot headers on the 32 and they are about 1/2 narrower than the headmans on the A-i will be switching them out to patriots for better clearance-both my frames are TCI-i am running the unisteer on the 32 and it offers alot more room and the steering angle is better than the vega box-I like the way it drives to

 

you dont have to run the vega box all the way foreward, or all the way back. mine is mounted mid way. still utilize cross steering